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The closer ally is likely to have SIGINT sharing agreements with your government. FVEY exists so that the UK or Canada can legally spy on my communications and

The closer ally is likely to have SIGINT sharing agreements with your government. FVEY exists so that the UK or Canada can legally spy on my communications and turn that data over to my government - which couldn’t otherwise get it without warrants and other pesky civil rights protections. I think I’d rather take my chances with an adversarial government. I know they’d be spying but their ability to act on it is far more limited.

kube-system 7y ago
I think you are suggesting a false dilemma. Do you think those sharing agreements will vanish if AT&T hangs some Huawei radios on their poles?
- owenmarshall 7y ago
  No. But I regard my biggest threat as my own government, and if my choice per the GPs hypothetical is “less information to my government and some information to a foreign power” or “all collected data to my government and none to a foreign power”, the first choice is best for me. Now, it may be fair to argue that the information collected from a 5G radio doesn’t mean much at all to my government. But I’d still rather depend on defense in depth.
Barracoon 7y ago
Are you American? If so, that is a false statement. DODI 5240.1-R says "[DoD components] Will not participate in or request any person or entity to undertake any activities that are forbidden by E.O. 12333 or this issuance." [1] The NSA, which has the SIGINT authority from EO 12333 [2], is a component of the DoD. A non-DoD entity, such as FBI, Treasury, etc, would (a) not have a foreign intelligence mission and would therefore go through normal court procedures to obtain warrants to collect your communications or (b) would need to coordinate through the executive agency (NSA in the case of SIGINT) to request support for foreign communications, which brings us back to the referenced DOD instruction requiring FISA approval. 1: https://dodsioo.defense.gov/Portals/46/DoDM%20%205240.01.pdf?ver=2016-08-11-184834-887 https://dodsioo.defense.gov/Portals/46/DoDM%20%205240.01.pdf... 2: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/execu...
- eternalny1 7y ago
  Snowden showed they were sharing nudes of ex-girlfriend in TAO. How well do you think the FISA warrant process is going in reality?
  - kube-system 7y ago
    The scenario you mention is an illegal anecdotal failure of the system to work as intended. If we're still comparing the US and China, I'd say it's working a great deal better than whatever system is currently (not) protecting Uighurs from systematic unjust search and seizure.
    - CWuestefeld 7y ago
      That it's illegal doesn't mean that we should pretend that it's not happening. Moreover, there's much more than anecdotal evidence. The recently-released report on the Trump investigation proves this. Even if you hate Trump, there's no getting around the fact that the FBI completely abused the FISA court system, getting warrants by lying and misleading the court. This is a systemic problem.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        I never said we should pretend it's not happening. I'm saying that even bringing that up as a point of comparison with China is silly.
        CWuestefeld 7y ago
        I don't understand how it's relevant to point out that US government actions are illegal. The fact is that it's really happening, so in point of fact, the US is not categorically different from China. The difference, if any, is solely one of degree.
        kube-system 7y ago

kube-system 7y ago

I think you are suggesting a false dilemma. Do you think those sharing agreements will vanish if AT&T hangs some Huawei radios on their poles?

owenmarshall 7y ago
No. But I regard my biggest threat as my own government, and if my choice per the GPs hypothetical is “less information to my government and some information to a foreign power” or “all collected data to my government and none to a foreign power”, the first choice is best for me. Now, it may be fair to argue that the information collected from a 5G radio doesn’t mean much at all to my government. But I’d still rather depend on defense in depth.

Barracoon 7y ago

Are you American? If so, that is a false statement. DODI 5240.1-R says "[DoD components] Will not participate in or request any person or entity to undertake any activities that are forbidden by E.O. 12333 or this issuance." [1] The NSA, which has the SIGINT authority from EO 12333 [2], is a component of the DoD. A non-DoD entity, such as FBI, Treasury, etc, would (a) not have a foreign intelligence mission and would therefore go through normal court procedures to obtain warrants to collect your communications or (b) would need to coordinate through the executive agency (NSA in the case of SIGINT) to request support for foreign communications, which brings us back to the referenced DOD instruction requiring FISA approval. 1: https://dodsioo.defense.gov/Portals/46/DoDM%20%205240.01.pdf?ver=2016-08-11-184834-887 https://dodsioo.defense.gov/Portals/46/DoDM%20%205240.01.pdf... 2: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/execu...

eternalny1 7y ago
Snowden showed they were sharing nudes of ex-girlfriend in TAO. How well do you think the FISA warrant process is going in reality?
- kube-system 7y ago
  The scenario you mention is an illegal anecdotal failure of the system to work as intended. If we're still comparing the US and China, I'd say it's working a great deal better than whatever system is currently (not) protecting Uighurs from systematic unjust search and seizure.
  - CWuestefeld 7y ago
    That it's illegal doesn't mean that we should pretend that it's not happening. Moreover, there's much more than anecdotal evidence. The recently-released report on the Trump investigation proves this. Even if you hate Trump, there's no getting around the fact that the FBI completely abused the FISA court system, getting warrants by lying and misleading the court. This is a systemic problem.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      I never said we should pretend it's not happening. I'm saying that even bringing that up as a point of comparison with China is silly.
      - CWuestefeld 7y ago
        I don't understand how it's relevant to point out that US government actions are illegal. The fact is that it's really happening, so in point of fact, the US is not categorically different from China. The difference, if any, is solely one of degree.
        kube-system 7y ago