4 ms·

I seem to be missing what to anyone who's ever had to deal with youth services is the obvious alternative: Schizophrenia, like almost all diagnosed psychologic

I seem to be missing what to anyone who's ever had to deal with youth services is the obvious alternative: Schizophrenia, like almost all diagnosed psychological disorders, is called a diagnosis, but is effectively a punishment. Psychiatrists feel sorry for blind patients and refuse to apply this punishment to them, for the same reason they wouldn't punish them for performing a little worse at basketball.

DangitBobby 7y ago
What do you mean it's a punishment?
- soup10 7y ago
  Schizophrenia diagnoses are generally applied to individuals with a mix of behavioral problems and "abnormal or undesirable" thought patterns. It's a broad brush that isn't applied based on hard biological data like an MRI of the brain, but on observed and reported behavior at the discretion of the psychiatrist and rough adherence to DSM guidelines. Typical treatments like Haldol, Thorazine, and Depakote have a blunting and depressive effect on the entire central nervous system. Treatments like shock therapy, cause severe memory loss and permanent brain damage. These "treatments" are often paired with coercion, involuntary injections, confinement in psych wards, and court orders. Many times LE will bring a civilian to a psych ward as a secondary or additional option to charging them with a crime. It's often seen as an additional tool in creating orderly communities, disciplining individuals that get out of line, and overall exerting control on society and free thought and action. Once a patient is admitted or diagnosed, they are strongly incentivized to align themselves and their behaviors to the values and expectations of the institutions and people that brought them there and control their release and treatment plans. Even if schizophrenia had a biological signature it wouldn't be used in practice because they WANT the ambiguity and discretion to classify and medicate patients as they see fit.
  - dsego 7y ago
    Do you have a diagnosis or have anyone in you family with this debilitating disease? Where do you find the nerve to post such misinformation as this? From personal experience, my family member who suffers from this condition has been hospitalized several times in psychosis and every time he comes out he is glad and happy that it's over and he is back to his normal self. The pharmacological therapy has horrible side effects but spreading FUD like this is way over the line. You also only list the older generation of medication, there are many new ones with less side-effects. Learn a bit a about the alternatives, the neurotoxic degenerative effects of the disease and the prognosis without treatment. With every new psychotic event there is less chance of getting the person back. And, yes they do MRIs and there are visible changes in the structure.
    - Schiz08426 7y ago
      I was diagnosed schizophrenic -- among other things -- in an in-patient program for children. The parent is sensationalizing a good bit, but I agree with his overal point: treatment of schizphrenics -- and other "untouchables" syndromes -- is very poor. Antipsychotics are hell. Full stop. Even for next-generation pharmaceuticals. Risperidone took away the delusions, and every other faucet of myself that made me human. Can it improve quality of life? Yes, it can. If the case is severe enough that the patient is endangering themselves or others (through violence or neglect), antipsychotics can sedate their impulses and delusions. I would describe it as a short-term (if ceased within a reasonable timeframe) chemical lobotomy. No hyperbole. I was lucky that I'm fairly educated, quick of mind, and primarily presented with negative symptoms (catatonic subset). Delusions and psychosis are transient, and I'm able to reflect on them, identify when they pop up, and not act on them. For someone that is in a near-constant state of psychosis, antipsychotics are really al that can be done, but I personally would rather be dead, than a husk. If I were still on them, I probably wouldn't believe this because the drugs would take away some of my agency. I'm now on a hefty dosage of a certain dopamine agonist, and it has improved my quality of life immensely. There are stil bugs, and psychosis and delusion are much more common now, but I have a good grasp on them and wouldn't want to to back to being a shel of a human. It's dehumanizing and violates my dignity.
      - 7y ago
  - dsego 7y ago
    > It's often seen as an additional tool in creating orderly communities, disciplining individuals that get out of line, and overall exerting control on society and free thought and action. This morning in my country an allegedly deranged 41-year old man stabbed a 16-year old girl to death. The media reports that he underwent psychiatric treatment in 2018. I will take the liberty of translating roughly one of his facebook posts to show you some "abnormal or undesirable" thought patterns, as you call them, and why appropriate treatment is necessary. > Today when they tell me that they have checked the first floor check above us, the apartment is the last name P., first name I.D., if the commanders report that they did not pass the check, the team that went into the apartment and they pretend to do some kind of check or what do I know supervision, let alone protecting us officials, they have an announcement after the order has been issued exactly as long as they have to scram out of the apartment as our commanders give them. We are the dead guard, then there is no such thing as a stop, I stopped, who goes, the password, the response, the Praetorians. The dead guard shoots, slaughters and then only checks when it is resolved that the protected natural persons are safe near the action and only then reports to the proper authorities. https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/osumnjiceni-za-ubojstvo-na-losinju-je-divljao-cijelu-noc-provalio-je-i-susjedu/2156878.aspx https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/osumnjiceni-za-ubojstvo-...
- candiodari 7y ago
  1) you can get locked up, indefinitely, based purely on the diagnosis. And while "it needs to be in your interest", it is in the interest of the people making that decision to do it (they're paid for that decision). 2) you can't drive. There's ways around it, but they involve extra courses and costs. 3) There's many things you can't do. From getting a security clearance to working in the police force, certain legal professions, certain medical professions ... 4) as a kid, let's not go into just HOW bad psychological treatment is. 5) medications against this are basically drugs. They're strong sedatives that don't help, except by sedating you in the moment. 6) those medications have side effects. Like all sedatives they can kill you, cause sleep problems, depression, hallucinations, "freezing" (weakness, up to total inability to move), tremors/shakes, eating problems. AND a common and interesting one: you don't consider the long-term consequences of your actions under the influence of these drugs, up to total unscrupulousness. Which brings us back to problem no. 1. 7) worse, if you go over the recommended dosage and duration the side effects generally become permanent. Eventually what happens is what people call "zombification". Summer Glau (or whoever ...) could come to your bedroom and offer absolute "anything goes" and you would not be able to lift a finger. Those recommended doses and duration are essentially nothing (enough for a mild high at best), and somewhere between hours and weeks depending on the exact drug. 8) EVERY psychiatrist and EVERY institution does not just go over those limits, they exceed them by years, factor of 10, "for lack of alternative". (meaning the alternative is having people watch those patients, much more expensive) 8) I guarantee the patient will be the one blamed for it, not the drugs, not the science itself (that clinical psychology has no answers for problems other than sedation), and not the nurses/docters that exceed the recommended dose by a factor 100.
kqr 7y ago
I don't know. In most of the civilised world, diagnosis unlocks options that were previously not available. In what part of the world would you rather be sick and undiagnosed than have your illness acknowledged?
- rriepe 7y ago
  Any place with red flag laws, including the USA. A diagnosis can make you a second-class citizen with fewer rights.
  - JC5413789642675 7y ago
    I doubt many blind people are applying for firearm licenses.
    - User23 7y ago
      Unsurprisingly, disabled people still want to exercise their constitutional rights[1]. Blindness isn't a binary condition, there are millions of legally blind Americans with enough usable vision to own and use firearms responsibly. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-g...

DangitBobby 7y ago

What do you mean it's a punishment?

soup10 7y ago
Schizophrenia diagnoses are generally applied to individuals with a mix of behavioral problems and "abnormal or undesirable" thought patterns. It's a broad brush that isn't applied based on hard biological data like an MRI of the brain, but on observed and reported behavior at the discretion of the psychiatrist and rough adherence to DSM guidelines. Typical treatments like Haldol, Thorazine, and Depakote have a blunting and depressive effect on the entire central nervous system. Treatments like shock therapy, cause severe memory loss and permanent brain damage. These "treatments" are often paired with coercion, involuntary injections, confinement in psych wards, and court orders. Many times LE will bring a civilian to a psych ward as a secondary or additional option to charging them with a crime. It's often seen as an additional tool in creating orderly communities, disciplining individuals that get out of line, and overall exerting control on society and free thought and action. Once a patient is admitted or diagnosed, they are strongly incentivized to align themselves and their behaviors to the values and expectations of the institutions and people that brought them there and control their release and treatment plans. Even if schizophrenia had a biological signature it wouldn't be used in practice because they WANT the ambiguity and discretion to classify and medicate patients as they see fit.
- dsego 7y ago
  Do you have a diagnosis or have anyone in you family with this debilitating disease? Where do you find the nerve to post such misinformation as this? From personal experience, my family member who suffers from this condition has been hospitalized several times in psychosis and every time he comes out he is glad and happy that it's over and he is back to his normal self. The pharmacological therapy has horrible side effects but spreading FUD like this is way over the line. You also only list the older generation of medication, there are many new ones with less side-effects. Learn a bit a about the alternatives, the neurotoxic degenerative effects of the disease and the prognosis without treatment. With every new psychotic event there is less chance of getting the person back. And, yes they do MRIs and there are visible changes in the structure.
  - Schiz08426 7y ago
    I was diagnosed schizophrenic -- among other things -- in an in-patient program for children. The parent is sensationalizing a good bit, but I agree with his overal point: treatment of schizphrenics -- and other "untouchables" syndromes -- is very poor. Antipsychotics are hell. Full stop. Even for next-generation pharmaceuticals. Risperidone took away the delusions, and every other faucet of myself that made me human. Can it improve quality of life? Yes, it can. If the case is severe enough that the patient is endangering themselves or others (through violence or neglect), antipsychotics can sedate their impulses and delusions. I would describe it as a short-term (if ceased within a reasonable timeframe) chemical lobotomy. No hyperbole. I was lucky that I'm fairly educated, quick of mind, and primarily presented with negative symptoms (catatonic subset). Delusions and psychosis are transient, and I'm able to reflect on them, identify when they pop up, and not act on them. For someone that is in a near-constant state of psychosis, antipsychotics are really al that can be done, but I personally would rather be dead, than a husk. If I were still on them, I probably wouldn't believe this because the drugs would take away some of my agency. I'm now on a hefty dosage of a certain dopamine agonist, and it has improved my quality of life immensely. There are stil bugs, and psychosis and delusion are much more common now, but I have a good grasp on them and wouldn't want to to back to being a shel of a human. It's dehumanizing and violates my dignity.
    - 7y ago
- dsego 7y ago
  > It's often seen as an additional tool in creating orderly communities, disciplining individuals that get out of line, and overall exerting control on society and free thought and action. This morning in my country an allegedly deranged 41-year old man stabbed a 16-year old girl to death. The media reports that he underwent psychiatric treatment in 2018. I will take the liberty of translating roughly one of his facebook posts to show you some "abnormal or undesirable" thought patterns, as you call them, and why appropriate treatment is necessary. > Today when they tell me that they have checked the first floor check above us, the apartment is the last name P., first name I.D., if the commanders report that they did not pass the check, the team that went into the apartment and they pretend to do some kind of check or what do I know supervision, let alone protecting us officials, they have an announcement after the order has been issued exactly as long as they have to scram out of the apartment as our commanders give them. We are the dead guard, then there is no such thing as a stop, I stopped, who goes, the password, the response, the Praetorians. The dead guard shoots, slaughters and then only checks when it is resolved that the protected natural persons are safe near the action and only then reports to the proper authorities. https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/osumnjiceni-za-ubojstvo-na-losinju-je-divljao-cijelu-noc-provalio-je-i-susjedu/2156878.aspx https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/osumnjiceni-za-ubojstvo-...
candiodari 7y ago
1) you can get locked up, indefinitely, based purely on the diagnosis. And while "it needs to be in your interest", it is in the interest of the people making that decision to do it (they're paid for that decision). 2) you can't drive. There's ways around it, but they involve extra courses and costs. 3) There's many things you can't do. From getting a security clearance to working in the police force, certain legal professions, certain medical professions ... 4) as a kid, let's not go into just HOW bad psychological treatment is. 5) medications against this are basically drugs. They're strong sedatives that don't help, except by sedating you in the moment. 6) those medications have side effects. Like all sedatives they can kill you, cause sleep problems, depression, hallucinations, "freezing" (weakness, up to total inability to move), tremors/shakes, eating problems. AND a common and interesting one: you don't consider the long-term consequences of your actions under the influence of these drugs, up to total unscrupulousness. Which brings us back to problem no. 1. 7) worse, if you go over the recommended dosage and duration the side effects generally become permanent. Eventually what happens is what people call "zombification". Summer Glau (or whoever ...) could come to your bedroom and offer absolute "anything goes" and you would not be able to lift a finger. Those recommended doses and duration are essentially nothing (enough for a mild high at best), and somewhere between hours and weeks depending on the exact drug. 8) EVERY psychiatrist and EVERY institution does not just go over those limits, they exceed them by years, factor of 10, "for lack of alternative". (meaning the alternative is having people watch those patients, much more expensive) 8) I guarantee the patient will be the one blamed for it, not the drugs, not the science itself (that clinical psychology has no answers for problems other than sedation), and not the nurses/docters that exceed the recommended dose by a factor 100.

kqr 7y ago

I don't know. In most of the civilised world, diagnosis unlocks options that were previously not available. In what part of the world would you rather be sick and undiagnosed than have your illness acknowledged?

rriepe 7y ago
Any place with red flag laws, including the USA. A diagnosis can make you a second-class citizen with fewer rights.
- JC5413789642675 7y ago
  I doubt many blind people are applying for firearm licenses.
  - User23 7y ago
    Unsurprisingly, disabled people still want to exercise their constitutional rights[1]. Blindness isn't a binary condition, there are millions of legally blind Americans with enough usable vision to own and use firearms responsibly. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-g...