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What's scary is if they willingly admitted to this, they've secured other means of decryption. American-owned technology can't be trusted any more than Chinese-
by pluc 7y ago
What's scary is if they willingly admitted to this, they've secured other means of decryption. American-owned technology can't be trusted any more than Chinese-owned technology.
- hn3333 7y agoPersonally, I do however have more faith in the secret agencies of western democracies than China. So all things being equal, right now I'd prefer Americans and Germans spied on me.
- DennisP 7y agoI'd rather be an American spied on by American secret agencies, than a citizen of China spied on by China. However, as a citizen and resident of America I'd rather be spied on by China, because it's a lot easier for my own government to make trouble for me.
- whatshisface 7y agoFurther, you are likely to get people to rally against China's spying, whereas a significant fraction of Americans want you to be spied on (because they can't distinguish between the people and their government).
- Areading314 7y agoDont be so sure. Plenty of retribution can be achieved online and unlawfully
- eska 7y agoThe American government is not going to steal your company's secrets and give them to other companies, the Chinese government in fact does.
- siv- 7y agoThe US has also engages in economic espionage.
- janvidar 7y agoIsn't this just a "...but, I have nothing to hide" argument? The values of the regimes in control are transient and ever changing. You might be okay with it right now - but maybe not in the near future.
- taborj 7y agoRights once given away are nearly impossible to get back. All rights, I might add, not just your right to privacy. You may not care about <thing> today but at some point in the future, you may.
- darawk 7y agoNot really. There is an important difference, in my opinion, between covert surveillance conducted for national intelligence purposes, and surveillance conducted for run of the mill police purposes. There is no real way around the fact that national intelligence agencies need to conduct mass surveillance of various kinds. National intelligence is a competitive zero sum game, and if we don't do it, others will, and we'll be at a disadvantage. The same is not true for policing, however. The real danger to citizen rights is when the crossover happens. I'm not worried when the CIA spies on me - i'm worried when the FBI does. I'm worried when the tools of international intelligence get turned to more mundane matters. And I think that is the transition that we have to fight tooth and nail. Fighting the "don't spy on me NSA" battle was lost decades ago, and you were never going to win anyway in any material way. Because even if you could stop the NSA from doing it, every other government in the world would be doing it. What we need to do is fight to keep that surveillance contained within the international intelligence mission, and not let it creep into domestic policing.
- blotter_paper 7y agoIf they wanna spy on us without warrants, they should amend the constitution about it; until then, it's treason.
- hatenberg 7y agoIf someone spied on me, I think it being a government in another country not collaborating with my own and very busy keeping up with their own population seems preferabke
- denzil_correa 7y agoIt’s almost a False Dilemma - you shouldn’t have to choose between the bad and the worse.
- dlsso 7y agoReally? Your local government has far more power over you than China does. I wouldn't be nearly as worried about China unless I was worth stealing from, assassinating, or something like that.
- tiborsaas 7y agoI don't have any trust in any secret agencies :) Their job is literally to deal with all the shady stuff you don't want to see in the news.
- mytailorisrich 7y agoNeither China, Germany, nor the USA care about you enough to spy on you. They only care about what is valuable to protect and advance their geopolitical and commercial interests, which are remarkably similar. Crypto AG was gold because their products were used by governments and perhaps high level business executives.
- sorokod 7y agoIndividuals are not the targets here, states are and their preferences may differ according to the prevailing winds of international politics.
- JulianMorrison 7y agoI have a strong suspicion this is why they are so down on Huawei, to the point of outright leaning on the British government. Not because the Chinese are tapping it, but because they aren't.
- S_A_P 7y agoDo you mean in addition to the Chinese tapping it the americans are unable to? I would agree if that is what you mean. I would also add that in hindsight, it looks like Huawei is the same arrangement as Crypto.
- JulianMorrison 7y agoThe UK government argument has been "we're not putting this stuff where a Chinese wiretap would get them anything", as I understand it, it's isolated to low security contexts. And they want Huawei because it's technically superior (needs fewer masts). The panicky US response makes most sense if the reply they can't say out loud is "but you're putting it in places where it interferes with our wiretapping!" This is probably not accidental.
- maqp 7y agoThere's nothing that prevents the US government from hacking Chinese TelCo equipment. Thus I think it's more likely it's about traditional competition. Of course it's cheaper to put a "NOBUS" backdoor than to hack systems and estabilish presistence on Chinese HW.
- taborj 7y agoI'm not sure they willingly admitted it. I read a story[0] that said the information was leaked. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-secretly-bought-encryption-company-crypto-ag-spy-countries-report-2020-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-secretly-bought-encrypti...
- jmull 7y agoNot exactly. Don't get confused by false equivalencies. This company is a problem because it's controlled by an American intelligence agency. The owners knew that was a problem, of course, and went to great lengths to hide that fact. Note that Crypto AG appeared to be a Swiss company, not an American one. Typical American companies aren't controlled by the CIA or other government agencies. Typical Chinese companies are substantially controlled by the Chinese government. It's a rather important difference when trying to figure out the risks of how much you can trust who you work with. There's subterfuge, of course, so there aren't hard and simple rules. This is an exercise in risk management. It's a rather large mistake to conclude Chinese Owned == American Owned.
- newfeatureok 7y agoYou can't say definitely that American companies are or are not controlled by government agencies.
- darawk 7y agoNo, you can't. His point is that you can say definitively that Chinese companies are controlled by government agencies, though.
- newfeatureok 7y agoWhat does "controlled by government agencies" mean?
- pinkfoot 7y agoWell, don't foget In-Q-Tel: the CIA's very own venture capital company. What better way to launder look-away money, or insert code. Have a gander at the companies they have had their paws on: Palantir, Inktomi, Docker, ArcSight, etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel
- marsRoverDev 7y ago> Typical American companies aren't controlled by the CIA or other government agencies. Unless the CIA has any interest in them, in which they get pwned pretty quickly.
- 101404 7y agoYou should try living for a while in a country with no rule of law and no judicial system. I suspect you would quickly change your views.