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> No, psychology isn't predicated on mind/body duality. Can you tell me how psychology exists without the mind? > Much of it is arguably compatible with mind/

> No, psychology isn't predicated on mind/body duality. Can you tell me how psychology exists without the mind? > Much of it is arguably compatible with mind/body duality simply because it doesn't address physical root So it is predicated on the mind/brain. > because it deals with abstract computation and mostly not the underlying physical mechanisms (left to the separate field of computer engineering) is predicated on computation/processor duality Your analogy seems off and you assertion contradicts itself. Computer science is a math. It lives in the world of "forms". Computer science exists without the processor. It existed before the processor. Lambda calculus and the turing machine existed before the processor. Just like arithmetic existed before calculators. Are you saying the mind exists without the brain? The mind existed before the brain? So aren't we back to square one - the mind/brain duality? If psychology isn't predicated on mind/brain duality, what is it predicated on?

dragonwriter 7y ago
> Can you tell me how psychology exists without the mind? It doesn't (well, except maybe behavioral psychology, which arguably could) exist without the mind. It just doesn't care one way or another about whether the mind is a direct product of the physical body or not. “Mind/body” duality isn't just “the mind exist”, but “the mind is at least in part not a property of the body”. > If psychology isn't predicated on mind/brain duality, what is it predicated on? Depends what particular branch. Behavioral psychology is predicated on humans existing and having behavior, most of the rest of psychology is predicated on humans existing and having cognition, whether or not that cognition is a property of the physical body.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > It doesn't (well, except maybe behavioral psychology, which arguably could) exist without the mind. Okay. So psychology requires the mind. Good. Does psychology deny the brain exists? If not, you have the mind-brain duality. > Mind/body” duality isn't just “the mind exist” Yes. I suspect that's why the part about the brain and duality is in "mind/brain duality". I'm glad we are agreed. Otherwise, if there was no mind-body duality, we wouldn't have psychology but only neuroscience. Maybe one day, hopefully.
  - dllthomas 7y ago
    Does neuroscience rely on neuron/collection-of-atoms duality? IIUC, classically "mind-body dualism" involves an assertion that the mind cannot be explained physiologically. Psychology only asserts that the mind can be reasoned about directly. The usefulness of psychology depends on that reasoning being sufficiently accurate and sufficiently easier than reasoning neurologically for some problems.
    - dntbnmpls 7y ago
      > Does neuroscience rely on neuron/collection-of-atoms duality? No because such duality doesn't exist. It's a relationship of composition rather than duality. It's empirically shown that neurons and atoms exist and neurons are composed of atoms. Last I checked, there isn't any empirical evidence for "the mind" just like there isn't any empirical evidence for "the soul". And nobody is asserting that the mind is composed of brains. > IIUC, classically "mind-body dualism" involves an assertion that the mind cannot be explained physiologically. No. Classically, the mind-body dualism is the idea that the mind and body are distinct separate entities and that the mind does the "thinking" and the body cannot "think". Has nothing to do one explaining the other. > Psychology only asserts that the mind can be reasoned about directly. Not directly, indirectly. > The usefulness of psychology depends on that reasoning being sufficiently accurate and sufficiently easier than reasoning neurologically for some problems. Or... there is no such thing as a mind-body duality and it's all just body and psychology is pseudoscience. Mind-body dualism is just a rehash of the soul-body dualism. People used to believe that the soul controlled the body and that's why the body could move. People used to believe that the sickenness of the soul translated to sickenness of the body. Hence why people used to believe diseased people were cursed by god for their sins. We don't subscribe to that belief anymore after advances in physiology. As we learned more about the body, the soul slowly faded away. Makes one wonder what advances in neuroscience may do to the mind.
      - dllthomas 7y ago
        You're being sloppy enough that this is frustrating and also uninteresting, so I am not going to continue.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Can you tell me how psychology exists without the mind? It doesn't (well, except maybe behavioral psychology, which arguably could) exist without the mind. It just doesn't care one way or another about whether the mind is a direct product of the physical body or not. “Mind/body” duality isn't just “the mind exist”, but “the mind is at least in part not a property of the body”. > If psychology isn't predicated on mind/brain duality, what is it predicated on? Depends what particular branch. Behavioral psychology is predicated on humans existing and having behavior, most of the rest of psychology is predicated on humans existing and having cognition, whether or not that cognition is a property of the physical body.

dntbnmpls 7y ago
> It doesn't (well, except maybe behavioral psychology, which arguably could) exist without the mind. Okay. So psychology requires the mind. Good. Does psychology deny the brain exists? If not, you have the mind-brain duality. > Mind/body” duality isn't just “the mind exist” Yes. I suspect that's why the part about the brain and duality is in "mind/brain duality". I'm glad we are agreed. Otherwise, if there was no mind-body duality, we wouldn't have psychology but only neuroscience. Maybe one day, hopefully.
- dllthomas 7y ago
  Does neuroscience rely on neuron/collection-of-atoms duality? IIUC, classically "mind-body dualism" involves an assertion that the mind cannot be explained physiologically. Psychology only asserts that the mind can be reasoned about directly. The usefulness of psychology depends on that reasoning being sufficiently accurate and sufficiently easier than reasoning neurologically for some problems.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > Does neuroscience rely on neuron/collection-of-atoms duality? No because such duality doesn't exist. It's a relationship of composition rather than duality. It's empirically shown that neurons and atoms exist and neurons are composed of atoms. Last I checked, there isn't any empirical evidence for "the mind" just like there isn't any empirical evidence for "the soul". And nobody is asserting that the mind is composed of brains. > IIUC, classically "mind-body dualism" involves an assertion that the mind cannot be explained physiologically. No. Classically, the mind-body dualism is the idea that the mind and body are distinct separate entities and that the mind does the "thinking" and the body cannot "think". Has nothing to do one explaining the other. > Psychology only asserts that the mind can be reasoned about directly. Not directly, indirectly. > The usefulness of psychology depends on that reasoning being sufficiently accurate and sufficiently easier than reasoning neurologically for some problems. Or... there is no such thing as a mind-body duality and it's all just body and psychology is pseudoscience. Mind-body dualism is just a rehash of the soul-body dualism. People used to believe that the soul controlled the body and that's why the body could move. People used to believe that the sickenness of the soul translated to sickenness of the body. Hence why people used to believe diseased people were cursed by god for their sins. We don't subscribe to that belief anymore after advances in physiology. As we learned more about the body, the soul slowly faded away. Makes one wonder what advances in neuroscience may do to the mind.
    - dllthomas 7y ago
      You're being sloppy enough that this is frustrating and also uninteresting, so I am not going to continue.