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> An engineer should know better Maaaaybe? I'm not a hydraulic engineer and won't pretend to be one. So I hire plumbers when things go wrong. If they screw up,

> An engineer should know better Maaaaybe? I'm not a hydraulic engineer and won't pretend to be one. So I hire plumbers when things go wrong. If they screw up, I don't tend to blame myself though. I think the same logic would apply to the deceased.

denkmoon 7y ago
I feel that an engineer in almost any field should understand failsafe vs fail-deadly. Tesla's autopilot is definitely not a failsafe system. While this is somewhat callous, if this engineer had taken that seriously he would still be alive.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Or if Tesla had
  - denkmoon 7y ago
    Nobody at Tesla claims that this is a failsafe system. In fact, they specifically tell you to be ready to take over at any time. That is not a system I would rely upon, personally. Are companies bound to only selling failsafe products? Of course not, we'd never get anything done. I do find it somewhat immoral that Tesla are using their customers as beta testers for this, but nobody has been forced into this. Nobody is forced to use Autopilot.
    - jacobush 7y ago
      I think something about responsibility changes at scale. If a Tesla was a bespoke machine, I'd have no issues. But they know that if they position a feature and posture just-so-and-so, a certain fraction of their customers will get it "the wrong way". What did they do to alleviate this? Nothing, in my not so humble opinion.
    - bagacrap 7y ago
      In California every building has a sign affixed that warns of carcinogens within, does that mean you never go indoors? No, it means you learn to ignore safety warnings.
  - xvector 7y ago
    This is the real problem. Tesla had been aware of the "crashing into barriers" issue for a long time.
quelltext 7y ago
For some reason "Apple engineer" is used a lot (see title) in discussions around this on both ends (i.e. "he was an engineer and thus knew his stuff/was credible, and he voiced some concerns to friends/family, so let's agree with it being Tesla's fault" vs. "he was an engineer and should have known/anticipated the system's caveats"). The thing is you cannot have it both ways, so I think (and I think we agree) we should not appeal to the driver being an engineer at all.
- totalZero 7y ago
  Being an engineer should only add value to his comments about an engineered technology. His complaint was made from a position of software expertise and familiarity with technology. His inability to anticipate the system's caveat that led to his death is a testament to the unpredictability (from the user's perspective) of the vehicle's behavior.

denkmoon 7y ago

I feel that an engineer in almost any field should understand failsafe vs fail-deadly. Tesla's autopilot is definitely not a failsafe system. While this is somewhat callous, if this engineer had taken that seriously he would still be alive.

jacobush 7y ago
Or if Tesla had
- denkmoon 7y ago
  Nobody at Tesla claims that this is a failsafe system. In fact, they specifically tell you to be ready to take over at any time. That is not a system I would rely upon, personally. Are companies bound to only selling failsafe products? Of course not, we'd never get anything done. I do find it somewhat immoral that Tesla are using their customers as beta testers for this, but nobody has been forced into this. Nobody is forced to use Autopilot.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    I think something about responsibility changes at scale. If a Tesla was a bespoke machine, I'd have no issues. But they know that if they position a feature and posture just-so-and-so, a certain fraction of their customers will get it "the wrong way". What did they do to alleviate this? Nothing, in my not so humble opinion.
  - bagacrap 7y ago
    In California every building has a sign affixed that warns of carcinogens within, does that mean you never go indoors? No, it means you learn to ignore safety warnings.
- xvector 7y ago
  This is the real problem. Tesla had been aware of the "crashing into barriers" issue for a long time.

quelltext 7y ago

For some reason "Apple engineer" is used a lot (see title) in discussions around this on both ends (i.e. "he was an engineer and thus knew his stuff/was credible, and he voiced some concerns to friends/family, so let's agree with it being Tesla's fault" vs. "he was an engineer and should have known/anticipated the system's caveats"). The thing is you cannot have it both ways, so I think (and I think we agree) we should not appeal to the driver being an engineer at all.

totalZero 7y ago
Being an engineer should only add value to his comments about an engineered technology. His complaint was made from a position of software expertise and familiarity with technology. His inability to anticipate the system's caveat that led to his death is a testament to the unpredictability (from the user's perspective) of the vehicle's behavior.