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Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything

by m00x 7y ago

Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything unusual has to be taken care of by a human pilot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot > Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle. Names don't really mean anything, it could have been named anything. If people think it's 99% reliable and it's convenient, they will use it.

catalogia 7y ago
> Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything unusual has to be taken care of by a human pilot. From what I've seen, the general public has an inaccurate perspective on airplane autopilot systems. Loads of people think pilots simply push a button then sit back and relax as the plane automatically taxis, takes off, flies then lands itself. In choosing to name their technology after another technology which the general public has misconceptions about, Tesla chose to inherit those misconceptions. Edit: I'm surprised there is any incredulity here, I've been hearing people say "planes basically fly themselves" and "all it takes to be a pilot is pushing a button" for years. Most often this misconception is surfaced in casual conversation, but here is one example of the misconception getting published: 'A computerized brain known as the autopilot can fly a 787 jet unaided, but irrationally we place human pilots in the cockpit to babysit the autopilot "just in case."' - https://www.wired.com/2012/12/ff-robots-will-take-our-jobs/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/ff-robots-will-take-our-jobs/ Edit 2: Re: Autoland Modern airliners have autoland, but always take off under human control. Autonomous takeoff is not used by any airliner. Anyway, to your point, a modern airline's autopilot system allows pilots to take their hands off the controls. Tesla's manual says that is forbidden: "Warning: Autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times." (page 106: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_man...) So no matter which way you slice it, Tesla has chosen misleading terminology.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  > From what I've seen Where? How? That's not a scientific statement. > Loads of people think pilots simply push a button then sit back and relax as the plane automatically taxis, takes off, flies then lands itself. Who thinks that? That seems like a hyperbole and you can't possibly know. > Tesla chose to inherit those misconceptions. Assuming all those above assumptions are true and assuming Tesla reached those same conclusions as the people that didn't know how airplanes work. Just loads of speculating and attempted mind-reading... > Autopilot -> Automatic Pilot Autopilot is one word and has a specific definition in avionics. It keeps the altitude and heading. If you rip the word apart and magically transform Auto to Automatic you have Automatic and Pilot, but there is no such thing as an automatic pilots, just pilots, that's why autopilot is one word. Under that same logic automobiles should be automatic mobility devices that self-drive already. You can't change the definition of a word to meet your argument. You also can't speculate that people probably might think the word may mean this. Autopilot !== automatic pilot. That's not a thing.
  - jimmux 7y ago
    I wouldn't normally use it as a source, but Urban Dictionary shows that colloquially plenty of people consider autopilot to be complete automatic control (worryingly, even to the point of blackout drunkenness). https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=autopilot https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=autopilot
    - taneq 7y ago
      That's referring to the human condition of "being on autopilot" (aka. your higher cognitive functions aren't doing much and you're brain's operating primarily on reflex). It's generally only used to describe situations where you've done something dumb because you were impaired or weren't really paying attention.
  - hugey010 7y ago
    Just expand and define the words, and don't let your knowledge about how the tech works block your ability to reason. Autopilot -> Automatic Pilot. Automatic: working by itself with little or no direct human control. Pilot: one qualified to control a vehicle. I'd argue if autopilot requires intervention it is hardly automatic and definitely not qualified to operate a vehicle. Further, consider other automatic devices in most cars, such as the automatic transmission. How do people expect to intervene with a gear shift during normal operation? Never.
spookthesunset 7y ago
> Names don't really mean anything, it could have been named anything. Names absolutely have meaning. Why do you think Tesla named it “auto pilot” and not something else?
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Maybe because it literally means what it does?
  - xvector 7y ago
    No, not really. If you're comparing to planes, they have automated systems that will almost always keep them at a completely different altitude to avoid potential collisions. Plane pilots have to pay very little attention with autopilot on compared to Tesla drivers with Autopilot on.
    - paranoidrobot 7y ago
      > No, not really. If you're comparing to planes, they have automated systems that will almost always keep them at a completely different altitude to avoid potential collisions. Autopilot in VNAV/LNAV modes does not do this, it follows a programmed flight path. TCAS is the anti-collision system, but it's a secondary system that only gives information to the pilot. It's up to the pilot to make inputs to avoid a collision. Pilots are the primary anti-collision system - by using their eyeballs to look for other aircraft when flying under visual flight rules (VFR) and also following clearances/information from controllers when flying under instrument flight rules (IFR). > Plane pilots have to pay very little attention with autopilot on compared to Tesla drivers with Autopilot on. This is not correct at all.
    - ben_bai 7y ago
      There are different autopilots for planes. They differ in capabilities. Mostly the pilot sets a heading, altitude and speed and the airplane will maintain that. The main collision avoidance system is Air Traffic Control telling the pilot where to fly when. Then there are other warning systems that only alert the pilot (terrain and other planes). The real autopilot in planes is called Auto Flight System and is very recent and needs to be monitored closely. It can lift off, fly and land on it's own, but basically only in good weather condition.
Jasper_ 7y ago
Every single time this is posted, I have to remind people that the video posted on Tesla's own Autopilot website [0] says this RIGHT at the beginning: "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" They are not saying "use with caution, autopilot is an assistance feature", they are saying "The car is driving itself". [0] https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot
- jsight 7y ago
  Every time you do, I remind you that the page also makes it clear that current systems require supervision. I have a car with Mobileeye. Mobileye recently demonstrated fsd in Jerusalem. Fortunately, like everyone else who can read, I know that system is not the same system that I have installed on my car. Tesla’s wording really isn’t that different here.
  - justapassenger 7y ago
    Did the car salesman showed you video of that FSD demonstration, while they were describing driving assist features of a car you were buying?
    - jsight 7y ago
      No, but they used to run this ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdR91G2L7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdR91G2L7c Several interesting things are here: 1. Construction zones -- ProPilot should not be used there. It isn't realiable when lines are incorrect. 2. The wheel is moved automatically to a large degree. In the video it appears to be a larger movement than the system actually supports. 3. This commercial implies that it is actually a solution for inexperienced drivers, but it definitely is not.
- paranoidrobot 7y ago
  I don't know when that went up there, but that's not demonstrating autopilot - that's demonstrating Full-Self-Driving (FSD) capabilities. Less than 10 seconds in it's demonstrating functionality that Autopilot does not have - turning from one road onto another, stopping at intersections, etc.
lutorm 7y ago
Since autopilots on airplanes literally fly straight lines between waypoints, it's pretty clear that whatever it means in airplane contexts has zero bearing on what it means in a car context. Having an airplane autopilot fly in proximity to anything else is a recipe for swift death.
Angostura 7y ago
> Names don't really mean anything This is so, so wrong. Names explicitly set people's expectations.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

by m00x 7y ago

catalogia 7y ago

> Autopilot never meant full automatic control. In a plane context, which was the most common until now, it's only used to keep a trajectory steady, and anything unusual has to be taken care of by a human pilot. From what I've seen, the general public has an inaccurate perspective on airplane autopilot systems. Loads of people think pilots simply push a button then sit back and relax as the plane automatically taxis, takes off, flies then lands itself. In choosing to name their technology after another technology which the general public has misconceptions about, Tesla chose to inherit those misconceptions. Edit: I'm surprised there is any incredulity here, I've been hearing people say "planes basically fly themselves" and "all it takes to be a pilot is pushing a button" for years. Most often this misconception is surfaced in casual conversation, but here is one example of the misconception getting published: 'A computerized brain known as the autopilot can fly a 787 jet unaided, but irrationally we place human pilots in the cockpit to babysit the autopilot "just in case."' - https://www.wired.com/2012/12/ff-robots-will-take-our-jobs/ https://www.wired.com/2012/12/ff-robots-will-take-our-jobs/ Edit 2: Re: Autoland Modern airliners have autoland, but always take off under human control. Autonomous takeoff is not used by any airliner. Anyway, to your point, a modern airline's autopilot system allows pilots to take their hands off the controls. Tesla's manual says that is forbidden: "Warning: Autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times." (page 106: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_x_owners_man...) So no matter which way you slice it, Tesla has chosen misleading terminology.

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
> From what I've seen Where? How? That's not a scientific statement. > Loads of people think pilots simply push a button then sit back and relax as the plane automatically taxis, takes off, flies then lands itself. Who thinks that? That seems like a hyperbole and you can't possibly know. > Tesla chose to inherit those misconceptions. Assuming all those above assumptions are true and assuming Tesla reached those same conclusions as the people that didn't know how airplanes work. Just loads of speculating and attempted mind-reading... > Autopilot -> Automatic Pilot Autopilot is one word and has a specific definition in avionics. It keeps the altitude and heading. If you rip the word apart and magically transform Auto to Automatic you have Automatic and Pilot, but there is no such thing as an automatic pilots, just pilots, that's why autopilot is one word. Under that same logic automobiles should be automatic mobility devices that self-drive already. You can't change the definition of a word to meet your argument. You also can't speculate that people probably might think the word may mean this. Autopilot !== automatic pilot. That's not a thing.
- jimmux 7y ago
  I wouldn't normally use it as a source, but Urban Dictionary shows that colloquially plenty of people consider autopilot to be complete automatic control (worryingly, even to the point of blackout drunkenness). https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=autopilot https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=autopilot
  - taneq 7y ago
    That's referring to the human condition of "being on autopilot" (aka. your higher cognitive functions aren't doing much and you're brain's operating primarily on reflex). It's generally only used to describe situations where you've done something dumb because you were impaired or weren't really paying attention.
- hugey010 7y ago
  Just expand and define the words, and don't let your knowledge about how the tech works block your ability to reason. Autopilot -> Automatic Pilot. Automatic: working by itself with little or no direct human control. Pilot: one qualified to control a vehicle. I'd argue if autopilot requires intervention it is hardly automatic and definitely not qualified to operate a vehicle. Further, consider other automatic devices in most cars, such as the automatic transmission. How do people expect to intervene with a gear shift during normal operation? Never.

spookthesunset 7y ago

> Names don't really mean anything, it could have been named anything. Names absolutely have meaning. Why do you think Tesla named it “auto pilot” and not something else?

aaomidi 7y ago
Maybe because it literally means what it does?
- xvector 7y ago
  No, not really. If you're comparing to planes, they have automated systems that will almost always keep them at a completely different altitude to avoid potential collisions. Plane pilots have to pay very little attention with autopilot on compared to Tesla drivers with Autopilot on.
  - paranoidrobot 7y ago
    > No, not really. If you're comparing to planes, they have automated systems that will almost always keep them at a completely different altitude to avoid potential collisions. Autopilot in VNAV/LNAV modes does not do this, it follows a programmed flight path. TCAS is the anti-collision system, but it's a secondary system that only gives information to the pilot. It's up to the pilot to make inputs to avoid a collision. Pilots are the primary anti-collision system - by using their eyeballs to look for other aircraft when flying under visual flight rules (VFR) and also following clearances/information from controllers when flying under instrument flight rules (IFR). > Plane pilots have to pay very little attention with autopilot on compared to Tesla drivers with Autopilot on. This is not correct at all.
  - ben_bai 7y ago
    There are different autopilots for planes. They differ in capabilities. Mostly the pilot sets a heading, altitude and speed and the airplane will maintain that. The main collision avoidance system is Air Traffic Control telling the pilot where to fly when. Then there are other warning systems that only alert the pilot (terrain and other planes). The real autopilot in planes is called Auto Flight System and is very recent and needs to be monitored closely. It can lift off, fly and land on it's own, but basically only in good weather condition.

Jasper_ 7y ago

Every single time this is posted, I have to remind people that the video posted on Tesla's own Autopilot website [0] says this RIGHT at the beginning: "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" They are not saying "use with caution, autopilot is an assistance feature", they are saying "The car is driving itself". [0] https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

jsight 7y ago
Every time you do, I remind you that the page also makes it clear that current systems require supervision. I have a car with Mobileeye. Mobileye recently demonstrated fsd in Jerusalem. Fortunately, like everyone else who can read, I know that system is not the same system that I have installed on my car. Tesla’s wording really isn’t that different here.
- justapassenger 7y ago
  Did the car salesman showed you video of that FSD demonstration, while they were describing driving assist features of a car you were buying?
  - jsight 7y ago
    No, but they used to run this ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdR91G2L7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdR91G2L7c Several interesting things are here: 1. Construction zones -- ProPilot should not be used there. It isn't realiable when lines are incorrect. 2. The wheel is moved automatically to a large degree. In the video it appears to be a larger movement than the system actually supports. 3. This commercial implies that it is actually a solution for inexperienced drivers, but it definitely is not.
paranoidrobot 7y ago
I don't know when that went up there, but that's not demonstrating autopilot - that's demonstrating Full-Self-Driving (FSD) capabilities. Less than 10 seconds in it's demonstrating functionality that Autopilot does not have - turning from one road onto another, stopping at intersections, etc.

lutorm 7y ago

Since autopilots on airplanes literally fly straight lines between waypoints, it's pretty clear that whatever it means in airplane contexts has zero bearing on what it means in a car context. Having an airplane autopilot fly in proximity to anything else is a recipe for swift death.

Angostura 7y ago

> Names don't really mean anything This is so, so wrong. Names explicitly set people's expectations.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]