5 ms·

In the U.S. this is called 'American exceptionalism'.

ashwinaj 7y ago
Sure, but people can openly criticize the US govt and it's policies. Can they do this in China? A sense of national pride should not trump objectivity.
- the-dude 7y ago
  Of course they can criticize the US govt in China.
  - ashwinaj 7y ago
    I am talking about Chinese citizens criticizing the Chinese govt. __in China__ the same way as American citizens can criticize the American govt. in America, if it wasn't obvious. And by criticizing I mean openly criticizing in public, not hiding behind some pseudonym online
    - PeterisP 7y ago
      It comes off as a play on the old Cold War joke (crude translation of how I remember it being told in the 1980s in Russian) with an American and a Russian discussing about their regimes; and the American proudly says - we have freedom of speech, I can go next to the White House with a banner saying "Reagan is a fool!" and that's going to be okay; to which the Russian responds - so what, that's not any advantage, I can also go to the Red Square with a banner saying "Reagan is a fool!" and there won't be any problems...
    - the-dude 7y ago
      An American and a Russian are sitting in a bar, arguing over whose country was better. The American argues, "See, in America, I am free to do whatever I want. If I wanted to, I could walk right into the White House, slam my fist on the President's desk, and say 'Mr. President, I don't like the way you are running our country.'" The Russian then said, "I can do the same thing." "Really? You can?" asks the American. "Yes," continues the Russian, "If I wanted to, I could walk right into the Kremlin, slam my fist on the General Secretary's office, and say 'Mr. General Secretary, I don't like the way President Reagan is running his country.'" Sourced from https://upjoke.com/ronald-reagan-jokes https://upjoke.com/ronald-reagan-jokes
allovernow 7y ago
Absolute nonsense to equate the idea of American Exceptionalism with Chinese nationalism. We don't get "admonished" or sent to work camps for being insufficiently or even anti-nationalistic. Our schools regularly even have curricula where American exceptionalism is questioned, unlike the Chinese model where the government is beyond questioning lest you risk a lowered social credit score and a trip to the gulag. I swear people don't understand how good we have it in the West and how differently people think in China when they are subject to fervent brainwashing from birth. It is extremely difficult to even think to question the government when you have been explicitly and implicitly conditioned from birth to tow the line. Ask a Chinese national coworker about Coronavirus right now and how things are going there and watch them not even flinch when they tell you that everything's fine and under control - just know that if you do so you are putting them on the spot. They are so used to having their digital and in person communications monitored that they wouldn't risk even telling you the truth in person.
- minikites 7y ago
  >We don't get "admonished" or sent to work camps for being insufficiently or even anti-nationalistic. Colin Kaepernick was blackballed from the NFL for kneeling during the Pledge of Allegiance. Look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks: > On March 10, 2003, during a London concert, nine days before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, lead vocalist Maines told the audience: "We don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States (George W. Bush) is from Texas," which garnered a positive reaction from the British audience but led to a contrasting negative reaction, and ensuing boycotts, in the United States, where talk shows denounced the band, their albums were discarded in public protest and corporate broadcasting networks blacklisted them for the remainder of the Bush years.
  - uwuhn 7y ago
    Was anyone in either of your two examples imprisoned because of what they said or did?
    - beerandt 7y ago
tenpies 7y ago
Perhaps, but at the same time I have never met such self-hating people as urban Americans post-2016. The exceptionalism might be the degree of freedom it allows in thoughts about their own Americanism, and the seeming ability to believe both ends of the spectrum at the same time.
- jbay808 7y ago
  They don't hate themselves, they hate their non-like-minded compatriots. Just like when one sees a big pickup truck festooned with american flags and the pledge of allegiance plastered across the rear window, it's not to express their sheer joy in being American, but to admonish their non-like-minded compatriots for being insufficiently 'American'.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I don't hate myself; I hate the series of events and conditions that has turned the US into a severely-divided nation where half of the country has been brainwashed into voting for people who believe that rights and empathy and power should only be granted to straight cis-gendered white people and/or "true Americans", for whatever arbitrary definition of that they've decided on in a given week.
woodgrainz 7y ago
There is no freedom of speech, press, religion, or assembly in China. There is no comparison to be made.

Sure, but people can openly criticize the US govt and it's policies. Can they do this in China? A sense of national pride should not trump objectivity.

the-dude 7y ago
Of course they can criticize the US govt in China.
- ashwinaj 7y ago
  I am talking about Chinese citizens criticizing the Chinese govt. __in China__ the same way as American citizens can criticize the American govt. in America, if it wasn't obvious. And by criticizing I mean openly criticizing in public, not hiding behind some pseudonym online
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    It comes off as a play on the old Cold War joke (crude translation of how I remember it being told in the 1980s in Russian) with an American and a Russian discussing about their regimes; and the American proudly says - we have freedom of speech, I can go next to the White House with a banner saying "Reagan is a fool!" and that's going to be okay; to which the Russian responds - so what, that's not any advantage, I can also go to the Red Square with a banner saying "Reagan is a fool!" and there won't be any problems...
  - the-dude 7y ago
    An American and a Russian are sitting in a bar, arguing over whose country was better. The American argues, "See, in America, I am free to do whatever I want. If I wanted to, I could walk right into the White House, slam my fist on the President's desk, and say 'Mr. President, I don't like the way you are running our country.'" The Russian then said, "I can do the same thing." "Really? You can?" asks the American. "Yes," continues the Russian, "If I wanted to, I could walk right into the Kremlin, slam my fist on the General Secretary's office, and say 'Mr. General Secretary, I don't like the way President Reagan is running his country.'" Sourced from https://upjoke.com/ronald-reagan-jokes https://upjoke.com/ronald-reagan-jokes

allovernow 7y ago

Absolute nonsense to equate the idea of American Exceptionalism with Chinese nationalism. We don't get "admonished" or sent to work camps for being insufficiently or even anti-nationalistic. Our schools regularly even have curricula where American exceptionalism is questioned, unlike the Chinese model where the government is beyond questioning lest you risk a lowered social credit score and a trip to the gulag. I swear people don't understand how good we have it in the West and how differently people think in China when they are subject to fervent brainwashing from birth. It is extremely difficult to even think to question the government when you have been explicitly and implicitly conditioned from birth to tow the line. Ask a Chinese national coworker about Coronavirus right now and how things are going there and watch them not even flinch when they tell you that everything's fine and under control - just know that if you do so you are putting them on the spot. They are so used to having their digital and in person communications monitored that they wouldn't risk even telling you the truth in person.

minikites 7y ago
>We don't get "admonished" or sent to work camps for being insufficiently or even anti-nationalistic. Colin Kaepernick was blackballed from the NFL for kneeling during the Pledge of Allegiance. Look at what happened to the Dixie Chicks: > On March 10, 2003, during a London concert, nine days before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, lead vocalist Maines told the audience: "We don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States (George W. Bush) is from Texas," which garnered a positive reaction from the British audience but led to a contrasting negative reaction, and ensuing boycotts, in the United States, where talk shows denounced the band, their albums were discarded in public protest and corporate broadcasting networks blacklisted them for the remainder of the Bush years.
- uwuhn 7y ago
  Was anyone in either of your two examples imprisoned because of what they said or did?
  - beerandt 7y ago

tenpies 7y ago

Perhaps, but at the same time I have never met such self-hating people as urban Americans post-2016. The exceptionalism might be the degree of freedom it allows in thoughts about their own Americanism, and the seeming ability to believe both ends of the spectrum at the same time.

jbay808 7y ago
They don't hate themselves, they hate their non-like-minded compatriots. Just like when one sees a big pickup truck festooned with american flags and the pledge of allegiance plastered across the rear window, it's not to express their sheer joy in being American, but to admonish their non-like-minded compatriots for being insufficiently 'American'.
kelnos 7y ago
I don't hate myself; I hate the series of events and conditions that has turned the US into a severely-divided nation where half of the country has been brainwashed into voting for people who believe that rights and empathy and power should only be granted to straight cis-gendered white people and/or "true Americans", for whatever arbitrary definition of that they've decided on in a given week.

woodgrainz 7y ago

There is no freedom of speech, press, religion, or assembly in China. There is no comparison to be made.