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SEPA transfers in Germany are both free and instant too. Not saying it's not a slow and manually run industry in general, but I have nothing to complain about t

SEPA transfers in Germany are both free and instant too. Not saying it's not a slow and manually run industry in general, but I have nothing to complain about transactions.

reubenmorais 7y ago
I moved from Brazil to Germany last year and if you consider this instant I have bad news to share. At least with Commerzbank it's slow as molasses. In Brazil for same bank transfers I'd get an SMS in my phone at the same time as the sender got the confirmation that the transfer went through on their phone. Transfers between banks would typically clear in 2 hours or less. With cash withdrawals I got an SMS in my phone before the ATM was finished counting the notes. Here in Germany I have to reverse engineer what the entries on my transaction history were from vague hints in the business name, because they take days to show up in my account. Cash withdrawals from an ATM run by my own bank sometimes take 5 days to show up in my transaction history. I regularly do SEPA transfers to Portugal and it arrives at the end of the next business day, at the earliest. SEPA transfers in Germany sometimes clear same day, after several hours, but usually some point in the next day.
- gigatexal 7y ago
  The neobanks like Monzo or N26 are light years ahead of the domestic banks.
- pzumk 7y ago
  Earlier this week I sent money from ING to N26, took them 55 minutes. Then I sent money from Postbank to N26 and it took them 24 hours. This is not “instant”, but 1 hour is much better than 1 day.
  - nullandvoid 7y ago
    That's crazy my transfers between large traditional banks to internet ones in the uk is < 5 seconds
Tomte 7y ago
Next bank day is normal. "Instant" is only within a bank (sender and receiver customer of the same bank), and not even with every bank, and where it works that way, only relatively recently.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
  Instant (< 10 seconds) is at least possible, if not normal, between any two banks that support SCT Inst (which most do now).
hypertextcoffee 7y ago
Instant in Canada too. All banks use INTERAC, and transfers are truly instant.
- lstamour 7y ago
  I've found them to be instant for small amounts, such as what would be valid under tap-to-pay, but it takes a good 20 minutes up to 2 hours for larger amounts to be transferred and sometimes the bank calls you to validate the transaction. Not my definition of "instant" at that point. Also, due to technology reasons, not all Interac E-Transfer banks and credit unions support "autodeposit" which means if not supported, you have to click a link and then sign in to your online banking or banking app. Then pick an account to deposit to and enter the password or phrase the sender set. Not to mention having to add a contact first, which might require signing in to your bank again to validate the addition of the contact. So ... if this is instant, it leaves a lot to be desired still. It's not as fast as sending someone cash over a messaging app, say. And it doesn't work well with international networks, and there are expensive fees for cancelling a transaction, and banks can waive the fees, but if you're on a free plan chances are you either don't have auto deposit, or you'll have to pay for the Interac E-Transfer fee. They commonly set it at $1-1.50 per send, when internally, transferring money between banks (such as with Canadian EFT) is barely a penny. Of course, an EFT transfer generally takes 2 days, but I can't imagine it has to take that long, you'd just have to do inter-bank settlement more frequently.
jpincheira 7y ago
Instant but you gotta pay. Also in Canada. Funny that in countries like Chile transfers are free and instant.
luckylion 7y ago
And "free" isn't exactly accurate either. It depends on the account you have, many have a flat rate or some (large) amount of transfers included, others charge per action. My impression is that banking is massively overpriced in Germany. I understand it's not trivial and "I can build that on a weekend", but I don't see the need to spend ~10 euros on the average checking account that has two dozens actions a month. The pricing is also extremely stable despite all the technological changes, which seems to suggest that as well - if you go by prices, running it all completely digital is as expensive as having somebody manually read a paper slip, punch in the numbers, stamp the paper and file it away.
- xioxox 7y ago
  Germany has huge numbers of banks compared to other countries and so the system is inefficient. In addition the low interest rates mean banks find it hard to make money. My previously free German account now costs some money.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
    > Germany has huge numbers of banks compared to other countries and so the system is inefficient. That's not really true. While there is a huge number of banks, most of them are either co-op banks (Raiffeisen- and Volksbanken) or Sparkassen, and while they are all separate legal entities, all the banks from either of those groups run on their respective common infrastructure (Ficudia & GAD IT and Finanz Informatik).
therealmarv 7y ago
That's not a German only thing. It's called SEPA ICT (Instant Credit Transfer) and institutes on booth sides need to support it. Then it works also from one EU country to another within seconds. List of banks with SEPA ICT: https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/participants_export/sct_inst/sct_inst.pdf?v=1581068395 https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/p...
- mrpelz 7y ago
  In Germany, SEPA ICT is normally offered as a fancy “premium” service. All customers have just accepted that transfers might take up to three (!) working days and everyone just seems to be fine with that. My bank charges 0.50€ per ICT transfer.
  - felixfbecker 7y ago
    Sparkassen offer it for free. A non-ICT transfer takes one business day, and I think only because of anti-money-laundry law stuff.

SEPA transfers in Germany are both free and instant too. Not saying it's not a slow and manually run industry in general, but I have nothing to complain about transactions.

reubenmorais 7y ago

I moved from Brazil to Germany last year and if you consider this instant I have bad news to share. At least with Commerzbank it's slow as molasses. In Brazil for same bank transfers I'd get an SMS in my phone at the same time as the sender got the confirmation that the transfer went through on their phone. Transfers between banks would typically clear in 2 hours or less. With cash withdrawals I got an SMS in my phone before the ATM was finished counting the notes. Here in Germany I have to reverse engineer what the entries on my transaction history were from vague hints in the business name, because they take days to show up in my account. Cash withdrawals from an ATM run by my own bank sometimes take 5 days to show up in my transaction history. I regularly do SEPA transfers to Portugal and it arrives at the end of the next business day, at the earliest. SEPA transfers in Germany sometimes clear same day, after several hours, but usually some point in the next day.

gigatexal 7y ago
The neobanks like Monzo or N26 are light years ahead of the domestic banks.
pzumk 7y ago
Earlier this week I sent money from ING to N26, took them 55 minutes. Then I sent money from Postbank to N26 and it took them 24 hours. This is not “instant”, but 1 hour is much better than 1 day.
- nullandvoid 7y ago
  That's crazy my transfers between large traditional banks to internet ones in the uk is < 5 seconds

Tomte 7y ago

Next bank day is normal. "Instant" is only within a bank (sender and receiver customer of the same bank), and not even with every bank, and where it works that way, only relatively recently.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
Instant (< 10 seconds) is at least possible, if not normal, between any two banks that support SCT Inst (which most do now).

hypertextcoffee 7y ago

Instant in Canada too. All banks use INTERAC, and transfers are truly instant.

lstamour 7y ago
I've found them to be instant for small amounts, such as what would be valid under tap-to-pay, but it takes a good 20 minutes up to 2 hours for larger amounts to be transferred and sometimes the bank calls you to validate the transaction. Not my definition of "instant" at that point. Also, due to technology reasons, not all Interac E-Transfer banks and credit unions support "autodeposit" which means if not supported, you have to click a link and then sign in to your online banking or banking app. Then pick an account to deposit to and enter the password or phrase the sender set. Not to mention having to add a contact first, which might require signing in to your bank again to validate the addition of the contact. So ... if this is instant, it leaves a lot to be desired still. It's not as fast as sending someone cash over a messaging app, say. And it doesn't work well with international networks, and there are expensive fees for cancelling a transaction, and banks can waive the fees, but if you're on a free plan chances are you either don't have auto deposit, or you'll have to pay for the Interac E-Transfer fee. They commonly set it at $1-1.50 per send, when internally, transferring money between banks (such as with Canadian EFT) is barely a penny. Of course, an EFT transfer generally takes 2 days, but I can't imagine it has to take that long, you'd just have to do inter-bank settlement more frequently.

jpincheira 7y ago

Instant but you gotta pay. Also in Canada. Funny that in countries like Chile transfers are free and instant.

luckylion 7y ago

And "free" isn't exactly accurate either. It depends on the account you have, many have a flat rate or some (large) amount of transfers included, others charge per action. My impression is that banking is massively overpriced in Germany. I understand it's not trivial and "I can build that on a weekend", but I don't see the need to spend ~10 euros on the average checking account that has two dozens actions a month. The pricing is also extremely stable despite all the technological changes, which seems to suggest that as well - if you go by prices, running it all completely digital is as expensive as having somebody manually read a paper slip, punch in the numbers, stamp the paper and file it away.

xioxox 7y ago
Germany has huge numbers of banks compared to other countries and so the system is inefficient. In addition the low interest rates mean banks find it hard to make money. My previously free German account now costs some money.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
  > Germany has huge numbers of banks compared to other countries and so the system is inefficient. That's not really true. While there is a huge number of banks, most of them are either co-op banks (Raiffeisen- and Volksbanken) or Sparkassen, and while they are all separate legal entities, all the banks from either of those groups run on their respective common infrastructure (Ficudia & GAD IT and Finanz Informatik).

therealmarv 7y ago

That's not a German only thing. It's called SEPA ICT (Instant Credit Transfer) and institutes on booth sides need to support it. Then it works also from one EU country to another within seconds. List of banks with SEPA ICT: https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/participants_export/sct_inst/sct_inst.pdf?v=1581068395 https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/p...

mrpelz 7y ago
In Germany, SEPA ICT is normally offered as a fancy “premium” service. All customers have just accepted that transfers might take up to three (!) working days and everyone just seems to be fine with that. My bank charges 0.50€ per ICT transfer.
- felixfbecker 7y ago
  Sparkassen offer it for free. A non-ICT transfer takes one business day, and I think only because of anti-money-laundry law stuff.