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I've lived all over the U.S., the last seven years in Las Vegas. The Believer piece was the most accurate portrayal of the city I've ever come across. Las Vega

I've lived all over the U.S., the last seven years in Las Vegas. The Believer piece was the most accurate portrayal of the city I've ever come across. Las Vegas is, in many ways, the most American city. * Top to bottom, the city hustles for your attention and your commerce. Everyone implicitly understands that if the customer doesn't like the product or service, there are a million other options. It's a welcome change compared to other we're-too-cool-for-you downtowns. * It remains one of the only metro areas (perhaps the only one) in America where someone with a high school diploma can roll into town, get a job and, in fairly short order, make a middle-class life for him/herself. * We're a big destination for immigrants of all types who come here looking for work -- busboys become valets become small-shop owners become big-shop owners. * We're not sentimental when something doesn't work anymore. You see it on the Strip when hotels are imploded, sure, but you also see it all around town. We don't have a lot of half-dead, struggling businesses because, if it's not working, people try something new. Having said all that? The summers are miserable.

vkou 7y ago
Do the social costs of gambling addiction have any role in the introspective narrative of the city?
Ididntdothis 7y ago
Last time I was there I thought LV is like growing up in Germany I always thought the US was: pragmatic, over the top and innovative. Most of the US feels very stale and over the hill to me but it seems in Las Vegas people are still moving. On the other hand: it’s pretty nuts to build such a city in the middle of the desert.
- csomar 7y ago
  Many cities are in the middle of the desert: Dubai, Cairo, Doha, etc... Bonus point: Land is cheap. No trees to care about.
  - presspot 7y ago
    Except for all of those trees (and grass!) we plant to help us forget we live in a desert.
  - unblocker 7y ago
    What do all of those cities have in common? They will quickly become post-apocalyptic ghost towns as soon as the oil runs out.
- gwbrooks 7y ago
  It's the middle of the desert but geographically close to one of America's largest rivers, which supplies the overwhelming majority of our water. Whether or not that's sustainable is a matter of debate, but you don't have to be a hydrologist to look out over Lake Mead while flying in and see the water is historically low. Our electricity situation is more distributed. Yes, the Hoover Dam is nearby, but we draw power from thousands of sources, most out of state. The newest/densest development in the last several years -- City Center on the Strip -- has its own off-the-grid power system.
  - niftich 7y ago
    Southern Nevada actually gets most of its electricity from power plants within the state: mainly from natural gas power plants owned by NV Energy adjacent to Vegas. Here's a recent Power Content Label for Southern Nevada [1]. Not much of the electricity consumed in Southern Nevada is purchased from out-of-state. Most of the natgas used in Southern Nevada's power generation comes from western Wyoming. [1] https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_inserts/2019/12_dec/power-content-insert-south-2019-10_1_31.pdf https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_i...
- emmelaich 7y ago
  Electricity is pretty cheap I understand, compared to the rest of the US. Due to hydro and solar? So, perfect for a place that has lots of air-con and lights. On my visit there we were amazed that we could swim in near freezing air temp in the huge heated outside pool (more than double the size of an olympic.) Yes it's an extravagance, but at the same time where else might you get that experience except at natural hot springs locations?
  - craftyguy 7y ago
    It's not about electricity. Las Vegas is literally the worst place to build a large city with extravagant outdoor swimming pools, fountains, etc because those things require water and those things lose water at a ridiculous rate in the middle of a desert. Water is also not generally abundant in a desert (by virtue of it being a, uh, desert)
    - emmelaich 7y ago
      Deserts are dry on average, but some parts are quite wet :-) FWIW, Las Vegas water rates are lower than the average US city. That could be because the cost is subsidised by gambling and perhaps it doesn't includes the cost of say building Hoover Dam. But also the infrastructure is more modern than the typical US city. For comparison, Atlanta's water rates are MUCH higher than Las Vegas despite it having 10 times the annual rainfall.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  LV is an entertainment economy. It necessarily presents itself differently than other locales.
mattrp 7y ago
My inlaws have lived there part-time for the past 20 years.. I would say people should just read your comment above and save themselves the "shoot-me-now" angst of the article...I wish no one had ever said it would be a good idea for every article to be 2k words or more. In any case, I would also add that anyone looking to hack a cheap physical presence in LA or SF should consider Las Vegas. It's pretty trivial to fly in to either and the cost of the airfare and reasonable if not extravagant lodging in Vegas far outweighs the costs of actually living in either CA market. If something like surfair were to materialize in Las Vegas, I think it would be a fantastic way to commute.
- btkramer9 7y ago
  I think this is even more true for Phoenix
  - mattrp 7y ago
    Yeah I’ve based out of PHX a few times as well as LAS and would agree. If there was a subscription air charter at either place I would think it would be gang busters but that’s just me.
Aloha 7y ago
I mean, other than the large number of service jobs with upward mobility, I could say that about Dallas (today) too, or Los Angeles a generation ago.
at-fates-hands 7y ago
Back in the late 90's when mom and pop wireless shops were common, I remember the owner of one telling me an interesting about Vegas. At the time he was getting into the wireless industry, he was approached in the early 1980's by AT&T to be the sole wireless manager for AT&T in Vegas. This guy loved Vegas, went there three or four times a year, gambled a LOT and was considered a fairly high roller at several of the casino's he frequented (but not a whale mind you) but he was curious so he took a month off and lived in Vegas to find out how good the opportunity would be. He talked to anybody he could find, and started doing research about the people who lived there. He said after a month he realized there only really four kinds of people who were going to be his customers: - The aging retirement community. Most came here from other cities, live on a fixed income and live in many of the retirement communities in and around Vegas - The middle aged drifters who come in seeking fame and fortune, end up as dealers, waitresses or hotel staff. Most come, party, go broke and then leave and go back home - The players. Most of them are like the owner himself. They can spend three weeks here, or a month, but always go back to their native states. To them Vegas is a playground, nothing more. - The actual population of 470,000 people (this is 1980 remember) were compromised of a mix of the above and an even smaller group of people he'd have to convince to buy his services - which in 1980 were not cheap by any means. In the end, he turned down the offer, but the article seems to say a lot of what he found is still true today compared to what he found way back in the 1980's.
- taurath 7y ago
  The first bullet point is the only one that really has much population. There are tons and tons of people not covered who just live normal middle and working class lives, in affordable houses, and neighborhoods that look like just about anywhere else.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Except the hotels part your description sounds a lot like Austin of 10yr ago. I hope the summers are as miserable as you say they are. The Texas heat wasn't enough to keep out the kind of negative change that washed away most of the stuff on your list.
- gonzo 7y ago
  Having spent the first 25 years of my life (see other comment), and having lived in Austin 1992-2003 and 2011-now, I can tell you that summer in Las Vegas is far more miserable. And as ruined as it is by the influx, Austin is, by far, the better place to live.

vkou 7y ago

Do the social costs of gambling addiction have any role in the introspective narrative of the city?

Ididntdothis 7y ago

Last time I was there I thought LV is like growing up in Germany I always thought the US was: pragmatic, over the top and innovative. Most of the US feels very stale and over the hill to me but it seems in Las Vegas people are still moving. On the other hand: it’s pretty nuts to build such a city in the middle of the desert.

csomar 7y ago
Many cities are in the middle of the desert: Dubai, Cairo, Doha, etc... Bonus point: Land is cheap. No trees to care about.
- presspot 7y ago
  Except for all of those trees (and grass!) we plant to help us forget we live in a desert.
- unblocker 7y ago
  What do all of those cities have in common? They will quickly become post-apocalyptic ghost towns as soon as the oil runs out.
gwbrooks 7y ago
It's the middle of the desert but geographically close to one of America's largest rivers, which supplies the overwhelming majority of our water. Whether or not that's sustainable is a matter of debate, but you don't have to be a hydrologist to look out over Lake Mead while flying in and see the water is historically low. Our electricity situation is more distributed. Yes, the Hoover Dam is nearby, but we draw power from thousands of sources, most out of state. The newest/densest development in the last several years -- City Center on the Strip -- has its own off-the-grid power system.
- niftich 7y ago
  Southern Nevada actually gets most of its electricity from power plants within the state: mainly from natural gas power plants owned by NV Energy adjacent to Vegas. Here's a recent Power Content Label for Southern Nevada [1]. Not much of the electricity consumed in Southern Nevada is purchased from out-of-state. Most of the natgas used in Southern Nevada's power generation comes from western Wyoming. [1] https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_inserts/2019/12_dec/power-content-insert-south-2019-10_1_31.pdf https://www.nvenergy.com/publish/content/dam/nvenergy/bill_i...
emmelaich 7y ago
Electricity is pretty cheap I understand, compared to the rest of the US. Due to hydro and solar? So, perfect for a place that has lots of air-con and lights. On my visit there we were amazed that we could swim in near freezing air temp in the huge heated outside pool (more than double the size of an olympic.) Yes it's an extravagance, but at the same time where else might you get that experience except at natural hot springs locations?
- craftyguy 7y ago
  It's not about electricity. Las Vegas is literally the worst place to build a large city with extravagant outdoor swimming pools, fountains, etc because those things require water and those things lose water at a ridiculous rate in the middle of a desert. Water is also not generally abundant in a desert (by virtue of it being a, uh, desert)
  - emmelaich 7y ago
    Deserts are dry on average, but some parts are quite wet :-) FWIW, Las Vegas water rates are lower than the average US city. That could be because the cost is subsidised by gambling and perhaps it doesn't includes the cost of say building Hoover Dam. But also the infrastructure is more modern than the typical US city. For comparison, Atlanta's water rates are MUCH higher than Las Vegas despite it having 10 times the annual rainfall.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
LV is an entertainment economy. It necessarily presents itself differently than other locales.

mattrp 7y ago

My inlaws have lived there part-time for the past 20 years.. I would say people should just read your comment above and save themselves the "shoot-me-now" angst of the article...I wish no one had ever said it would be a good idea for every article to be 2k words or more. In any case, I would also add that anyone looking to hack a cheap physical presence in LA or SF should consider Las Vegas. It's pretty trivial to fly in to either and the cost of the airfare and reasonable if not extravagant lodging in Vegas far outweighs the costs of actually living in either CA market. If something like surfair were to materialize in Las Vegas, I think it would be a fantastic way to commute.

btkramer9 7y ago
I think this is even more true for Phoenix
- mattrp 7y ago
  Yeah I’ve based out of PHX a few times as well as LAS and would agree. If there was a subscription air charter at either place I would think it would be gang busters but that’s just me.

Aloha 7y ago

I mean, other than the large number of service jobs with upward mobility, I could say that about Dallas (today) too, or Los Angeles a generation ago.

at-fates-hands 7y ago

Back in the late 90's when mom and pop wireless shops were common, I remember the owner of one telling me an interesting about Vegas. At the time he was getting into the wireless industry, he was approached in the early 1980's by AT&T to be the sole wireless manager for AT&T in Vegas. This guy loved Vegas, went there three or four times a year, gambled a LOT and was considered a fairly high roller at several of the casino's he frequented (but not a whale mind you) but he was curious so he took a month off and lived in Vegas to find out how good the opportunity would be. He talked to anybody he could find, and started doing research about the people who lived there. He said after a month he realized there only really four kinds of people who were going to be his customers: - The aging retirement community. Most came here from other cities, live on a fixed income and live in many of the retirement communities in and around Vegas - The middle aged drifters who come in seeking fame and fortune, end up as dealers, waitresses or hotel staff. Most come, party, go broke and then leave and go back home - The players. Most of them are like the owner himself. They can spend three weeks here, or a month, but always go back to their native states. To them Vegas is a playground, nothing more. - The actual population of 470,000 people (this is 1980 remember) were compromised of a mix of the above and an even smaller group of people he'd have to convince to buy his services - which in 1980 were not cheap by any means. In the end, he turned down the offer, but the article seems to say a lot of what he found is still true today compared to what he found way back in the 1980's.

taurath 7y ago
The first bullet point is the only one that really has much population. There are tons and tons of people not covered who just live normal middle and working class lives, in affordable houses, and neighborhoods that look like just about anywhere else.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Except the hotels part your description sounds a lot like Austin of 10yr ago. I hope the summers are as miserable as you say they are. The Texas heat wasn't enough to keep out the kind of negative change that washed away most of the stuff on your list.

gonzo 7y ago
Having spent the first 25 years of my life (see other comment), and having lived in Austin 1992-2003 and 2011-now, I can tell you that summer in Las Vegas is far more miserable. And as ruined as it is by the influx, Austin is, by far, the better place to live.