6 ms·

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (

People don't need cash. That's the easy way out for intellectuals. And they sure as shit don't need a casino in their town. They need social infrastructure (families, extended families, social institutions like churches and service organizations), cultural infrastructure, and economic opportunity within this stable social structure. All of which the intellectual class has been helping the financial elites destroy for the past century or more.

metalliqaz 7y ago
That's nonsense. The only sliver of truth might be the waning of the influence of churches, which I might add, are not particularly helpful to when they decide to shun the members of the community who need the most help. At least in my northern coastal state, there are lots and lots of family resources that were put in place as a result of the persistent work of the "intellectual class". Free library programs for all ages of children, free health education programs, and so on.
happytoexplain 7y ago
Where is this bitterness for such a generic category of people as "intellectuals" coming from? I totally agree with what you're saying except the blame of - who? All educated people? All smart people? (Unless you're using that word as a shorthand for something more specific that maybe I would agree with.)
irpapakons 7y ago
I don't know, as someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family, I feel like if your parents are not good parents you're basically screwed. You just have to wait until you're grown up and make that tech salary to pay your therapist for a long time. If there is neglect or abuse at home, it doesn't matter if there's some mildly positive neighbours / aunts / church people, I think it's hard for that to make a real difference.
- vearwhershuh 7y ago
  Which is why you need extended family and social infrastructure, and cultural infrastructure, etc. as I mentioned. Nothing this side of heaven is perfect, of course.
caseysoftware 7y ago
Cash is appealing because it's "cheap" and scalable. It's a cold, clinical approach that lets "leaders" feel good and appeals to people at first glance but doesn't actually solve problems. The things that will change people, families, and cities require true leadership, mentoring, holding people accountable, and friendship. It requires deep personal investment in people and neighborhoods and can't be done from an office downtown.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  Do you think there's anything at all that government can do that would help?
  - missedthecue 7y ago
    Plenty, but none of it is ethically appealing or politically profitable.
WhompingWindows 7y ago
Why do we need churches specifically? Do you think there is something special about a church that couldn't be gained from other group, communal activities? I don't see attention being spent on church helping the community... some churches may spend 10-20% of their efforts helping the community, sure, but why not go to a soup kitchen or animal shelter or litter pick-up? Then 100% of your effort is helping others, not listening to stories from ancient books or discussing how mythical beings would view our sins. Community-wise, I'd prefer to play music, sports, sing in a chorus, head to a farmer's market or pub trivia. All of these don't require an abandonment of reason and enlightenment whilst still building community. And even when I have attended church, most people consider it a perfunctory duty to ensure they aren't put into Hell or, more closely, that they aren't judged by themselves or others for being pagans.
- golf3 7y ago
  In reality the secular communities never materialize and the lower class takes the brunt of the social breakdown.
miguelmota 7y ago
I think churches fuel poverty more than they help. Religion teaches people that they are the way they are because that's how 'God' intended them to be and that they'll be rewarded with riches when they go to 'heaven'.
- organsnyder 7y ago
  You're describing prosperity gospel theology, which is certainly popular (see Joel Osteen and the like) but is considered heretical by mainline traditions.
  - emblaegh 7y ago
    What he is describing is the opposite of prosperity theology.
- emblaegh 7y ago
  Even as an atheist myself, I can tell how ridiculously uninformed this view of Christianity (and probably most other religions) is.
  - Kaze404 7y ago
    Can you expand? I'm an atheist as well and that aligns pretty well with what I remember from when my parents would take me to the church as a teenager. For context, they're catholics.
  - rurp 7y ago
    Can you explain how that post was ridiculous? It matches my understanding of Christianity pretty well. The idea that suffering in this life is OK because it will pay off in the afterlife seems to be a common theme in the bible and helps explain why Christianity has been so consistently successful within poor communities.

metalliqaz 7y ago

That's nonsense. The only sliver of truth might be the waning of the influence of churches, which I might add, are not particularly helpful to when they decide to shun the members of the community who need the most help. At least in my northern coastal state, there are lots and lots of family resources that were put in place as a result of the persistent work of the "intellectual class". Free library programs for all ages of children, free health education programs, and so on.

happytoexplain 7y ago

Where is this bitterness for such a generic category of people as "intellectuals" coming from? I totally agree with what you're saying except the blame of - who? All educated people? All smart people? (Unless you're using that word as a shorthand for something more specific that maybe I would agree with.)

irpapakons 7y ago

I don't know, as someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family, I feel like if your parents are not good parents you're basically screwed. You just have to wait until you're grown up and make that tech salary to pay your therapist for a long time. If there is neglect or abuse at home, it doesn't matter if there's some mildly positive neighbours / aunts / church people, I think it's hard for that to make a real difference.

vearwhershuh 7y ago
Which is why you need extended family and social infrastructure, and cultural infrastructure, etc. as I mentioned. Nothing this side of heaven is perfect, of course.

caseysoftware 7y ago

Cash is appealing because it's "cheap" and scalable. It's a cold, clinical approach that lets "leaders" feel good and appeals to people at first glance but doesn't actually solve problems. The things that will change people, families, and cities require true leadership, mentoring, holding people accountable, and friendship. It requires deep personal investment in people and neighborhoods and can't be done from an office downtown.

happytoexplain 7y ago
Do you think there's anything at all that government can do that would help?
- missedthecue 7y ago
  Plenty, but none of it is ethically appealing or politically profitable.

WhompingWindows 7y ago

Why do we need churches specifically? Do you think there is something special about a church that couldn't be gained from other group, communal activities? I don't see attention being spent on church helping the community... some churches may spend 10-20% of their efforts helping the community, sure, but why not go to a soup kitchen or animal shelter or litter pick-up? Then 100% of your effort is helping others, not listening to stories from ancient books or discussing how mythical beings would view our sins. Community-wise, I'd prefer to play music, sports, sing in a chorus, head to a farmer's market or pub trivia. All of these don't require an abandonment of reason and enlightenment whilst still building community. And even when I have attended church, most people consider it a perfunctory duty to ensure they aren't put into Hell or, more closely, that they aren't judged by themselves or others for being pagans.

golf3 7y ago
In reality the secular communities never materialize and the lower class takes the brunt of the social breakdown.

miguelmota 7y ago

I think churches fuel poverty more than they help. Religion teaches people that they are the way they are because that's how 'God' intended them to be and that they'll be rewarded with riches when they go to 'heaven'.

organsnyder 7y ago
You're describing prosperity gospel theology, which is certainly popular (see Joel Osteen and the like) but is considered heretical by mainline traditions.
- emblaegh 7y ago
  What he is describing is the opposite of prosperity theology.
emblaegh 7y ago
Even as an atheist myself, I can tell how ridiculously uninformed this view of Christianity (and probably most other religions) is.
- Kaze404 7y ago
  Can you expand? I'm an atheist as well and that aligns pretty well with what I remember from when my parents would take me to the church as a teenager. For context, they're catholics.
- rurp 7y ago
  Can you explain how that post was ridiculous? It matches my understanding of Christianity pretty well. The idea that suffering in this life is OK because it will pay off in the afterlife seems to be a common theme in the bible and helps explain why Christianity has been so consistently successful within poor communities.