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Upwork (~$1000/month): Freelancers. I especially use Upwork because I don't have to think about all the billing stuff and time tracking, etc. The same for

Upwork (~$1000/month): Freelancers. I especially use Upwork because I don't have to think about all the billing stuff and time tracking, etc. The same for me, and they take a cut both sides (3% or 50 USD / month + 3% fees USD/EUR on my side and 5 to 10% on the freelancer side). I was wondering if there was an alternative to upwork for those who only need it for its automatic billing system + time tracking + weekly summary + screenshots of work (don't need to research for new talents). I guess time tracking tool could enter this market

patwalls 7y ago
I would pay for that if it's cheaper and my freelancers were OK with it. I think another benefit of using Upwork for this is the hours get logged on their Upwork profile which makes them more "active" and preferred in the Upwork algo?
- ttoinou 7y ago
  Yeah right ! That's why I was thinking that freelancers would be OK to stay a few months on upwork (and improve their profile) and if you want to hire them more long term they'll be OK to switch and avoid the high fees
  - Normal_gaussian 7y ago
    upwork has a non-circumvention clause with a minimal $3500 fee to break (it pretty much always scales to be not worth breaking). As to "how will they catch us" it would seem to fairly obvious from the freelancers schedule
    - ttoinou 7y ago
      They are not necessarily enforceable. It's probably just to scare the freelancers. Once upwork makes contact between freelancer and employers there's nothing they can do to really prevent them from talking between each others and agreeing on working on a new contract. (also I've been told this clause is only for the 2 first years.. ?)
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - K0SM0S 7y ago
        2 years from the date you met on Upwork is indeed when the non-circumvent clause expires. As for before that, I'll just quote a lawyer from their community forum¹: > “You might want to read up on so-called 'survival clauses', meaning clauses that specify which terms or provisions of a contract will remain in effect after the contract has been fully executed and the terms of said contract have been met.” I'm not aware of actual lawsuits, I'd suspect they only skim the top 5-10% (whenever it's enough to recoup lawyer fees), and send a ton of scary stuff to the rest (it's basically free, automatable, and probably works more than we'd think). But read that post, it'll make it emphatically clear what kind of mindset prevails on Upwork — in particular, notice the "Community Guru" title (lol) and what they have to say, and how they phrase it. IMHO, it's a lot of circle-jerking and virtual notoriety destined to favor group think (conversely muffle subversive ideas). We know it works, e.g some subreddits prove it, and we actually developed that model in online communities since the late 90s (you basically remove all barriers to cult-like non-critical thinking, praising of the platform, and let people go wild with gamified notoriety scores. Works wonders on big apes, before you know it you have an army willing to die defending the platform (half-Stockholm syndrome, half escalation of commitment). To compound this, there are enough very balanced yet damning pieces online about Freelancer, Upwork, etc. by people who have nothing to gain from slandering these platforms that I, for one, would play by the rules there, and keep a healthy distance. You want your own clients? Find them yourself or better yet, hire a freelancer to do it! Which you are free to find yourself as well within your geography ;-) Hope this helps. I was very enthusiastic about these platforms and this is one among many, many disingenuous values that drove me pretty negative about them (so, fair disclaimer, I think they're no better no worse than Uber et al; like the idea is good but the execution is too corporate-imbued with all the bad that entails). [1]: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/non-circumvention/td-p/509927 https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/non-circumventio...
swalsh 7y ago
I've tended to avoid Upwork, because it seems onerous on Freelancers, and also seems to result in the commoditization of freelancers. Working with that kind of talent can be burdensome. The best results require you to be ultra specific in your requests. I guess I'd prefer spending a bit more on Smart people... but those guys aren't on Upwork.
- Normal_gaussian 7y ago
  Where are they?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- ttoinou 7y ago
  There's everything on upwork ! Really good workers, bad people (lying about their schedule, deliverable, making up false excuses and insulting you) and average freelancers. If you are looking for someone remotely for a few well-defined small tasks upwork is really good to start with
aantix 7y ago
https://screenshotmonitor.com/tour https://screenshotmonitor.com/tour * No billing support, but they do have an API. https://screenshotmonitor.com/apidoc/ https://screenshotmonitor.com/apidoc/
- user- 7y ago
  I would quit if I was forced to install that.
  - skinnymuch 7y ago
    This is in response to Upwork. If you’re not on Upwork this isn’t relevant.
mxschumacher 7y ago
given high hourly rates for engineers - what does $1000 buy you?
- ttoinou 7y ago
  for 80 USD/hour, more than 12 hours of work :) ?
iudqnolq 7y ago
Upwork charges 20% of the first $500, 10% of the first $10,000, and then 5% onwards. Limits are per freelancer, client pair. If you're spending >$10,000 on an individual freelancer it seems it might make more sense to hire someone? (Getting started working with ~$500 webdev contracts on Upwork recently so very familiar with these numbers)

patwalls 7y ago

I would pay for that if it's cheaper and my freelancers were OK with it. I think another benefit of using Upwork for this is the hours get logged on their Upwork profile which makes them more "active" and preferred in the Upwork algo?

ttoinou 7y ago
Yeah right ! That's why I was thinking that freelancers would be OK to stay a few months on upwork (and improve their profile) and if you want to hire them more long term they'll be OK to switch and avoid the high fees
- Normal_gaussian 7y ago
  upwork has a non-circumvention clause with a minimal $3500 fee to break (it pretty much always scales to be not worth breaking). As to "how will they catch us" it would seem to fairly obvious from the freelancers schedule
  - ttoinou 7y ago
    They are not necessarily enforceable. It's probably just to scare the freelancers. Once upwork makes contact between freelancer and employers there's nothing they can do to really prevent them from talking between each others and agreeing on working on a new contract. (also I've been told this clause is only for the 2 first years.. ?)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - K0SM0S 7y ago
      2 years from the date you met on Upwork is indeed when the non-circumvent clause expires. As for before that, I'll just quote a lawyer from their community forum¹: > “You might want to read up on so-called 'survival clauses', meaning clauses that specify which terms or provisions of a contract will remain in effect after the contract has been fully executed and the terms of said contract have been met.” I'm not aware of actual lawsuits, I'd suspect they only skim the top 5-10% (whenever it's enough to recoup lawyer fees), and send a ton of scary stuff to the rest (it's basically free, automatable, and probably works more than we'd think). But read that post, it'll make it emphatically clear what kind of mindset prevails on Upwork — in particular, notice the "Community Guru" title (lol) and what they have to say, and how they phrase it. IMHO, it's a lot of circle-jerking and virtual notoriety destined to favor group think (conversely muffle subversive ideas). We know it works, e.g some subreddits prove it, and we actually developed that model in online communities since the late 90s (you basically remove all barriers to cult-like non-critical thinking, praising of the platform, and let people go wild with gamified notoriety scores. Works wonders on big apes, before you know it you have an army willing to die defending the platform (half-Stockholm syndrome, half escalation of commitment). To compound this, there are enough very balanced yet damning pieces online about Freelancer, Upwork, etc. by people who have nothing to gain from slandering these platforms that I, for one, would play by the rules there, and keep a healthy distance. You want your own clients? Find them yourself or better yet, hire a freelancer to do it! Which you are free to find yourself as well within your geography ;-) Hope this helps. I was very enthusiastic about these platforms and this is one among many, many disingenuous values that drove me pretty negative about them (so, fair disclaimer, I think they're no better no worse than Uber et al; like the idea is good but the execution is too corporate-imbued with all the bad that entails). [1]: https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/non-circumvention/td-p/509927 https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/non-circumventio...

swalsh 7y ago

I've tended to avoid Upwork, because it seems onerous on Freelancers, and also seems to result in the commoditization of freelancers. Working with that kind of talent can be burdensome. The best results require you to be ultra specific in your requests. I guess I'd prefer spending a bit more on Smart people... but those guys aren't on Upwork.

Normal_gaussian 7y ago
Where are they?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ttoinou 7y ago
There's everything on upwork ! Really good workers, bad people (lying about their schedule, deliverable, making up false excuses and insulting you) and average freelancers. If you are looking for someone remotely for a few well-defined small tasks upwork is really good to start with

aantix 7y ago

https://screenshotmonitor.com/tour https://screenshotmonitor.com/tour * No billing support, but they do have an API. https://screenshotmonitor.com/apidoc/ https://screenshotmonitor.com/apidoc/

user- 7y ago
I would quit if I was forced to install that.
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  This is in response to Upwork. If you’re not on Upwork this isn’t relevant.

mxschumacher 7y ago

given high hourly rates for engineers - what does $1000 buy you?

ttoinou 7y ago
for 80 USD/hour, more than 12 hours of work :) ?

iudqnolq 7y ago

Upwork charges 20% of the first $500, 10% of the first $10,000, and then 5% onwards. Limits are per freelancer, client pair. If you're spending >$10,000 on an individual freelancer it seems it might make more sense to hire someone? (Getting started working with ~$500 webdev contracts on Upwork recently so very familiar with these numbers)