5 ms·

> I'm using Firefox for years, after Chrome started to ask me for a login It's funny because Firefox has been pushing their login thing pretty hard (the yellow

by avian 7y ago

> I'm using Firefox for years, after Chrome started to ask me for a login It's funny because Firefox has been pushing their login thing pretty hard (the yellow "oh no" exclamation mark icon if you're not logged in, the account icon that keeps placing itself back onto my toolbar, occasional full-page ad/nag screen, ...).

satya71 7y ago
One of those browsers tracks everything you do if you sign-in, the other does it only to increase retention, not to track your activities. Guess which is which?
- anonymousab 7y ago
  It would be better not to do [questionable thing] than to do it at all. I don't particularly care whether nagware functionality is benign or not.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    A common complaint with Firefox was that you couldn't sync between devices - even though that was perfectly possible! But apparently, people had a hard time finding the functionality. You might not consider that use case important, but I wouldn't call it questionable.
    - anonymousab 7y ago
      I'm amiable to this reasoning right up until software conveniently forgets that I told it "no, I don't care, stop bugging me about it". And again. It's the kind of "oops haha just a mistake that we did the bad thing again" shenanigans that Mozilla employees complain about Google doing.
      - Vinnl 7y ago
        That's fair.
  - simias 7y ago
    Firefox sync is super convenient though, I don't really agree with you that it's a dark pattern. It does make using your browser more convenient across devices and I'm sure many people coming from chrome expect this to work out of the box especially since, AFAIK, google auto-logs you into Chrome as soon as it can. On the other hand I find Pocket a much more questionable addition.
bilkow 7y ago
This doesn't match my experience... When you install it, they show a page and the account icon. I believe that only on some major updates I've seen the account page again, which is a nice reminder to sync bookmarks (even though I don't use it). I always customize the toolbar upon installing and it (the icon) never came back or bothered me again.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
blackearl 7y ago
I've never seen the exclamation mark and I'm never signed in on my work computer. Meanwhile, Chrome signs you into the browser profile if you sign into any Google site and it's opt-out.
- wayneftw 7y ago
  They've got it plastered around the UI. It's the very top menu item. It's also in the Pocket address bar button right under where they advertise to you to "Sign up for Pocket. It's freeeeeee!" Not only that, but on new installs and after some updates Firefox nags you to sign up whenever it can, for instance when you log into a website - right after you save the password it will show some animated crap in the address bar to nag you to "Sign in to sync..." I just opened Firefox (on Linux no less) to confirm every single one of these things. Chrome (my default browser) actually nags me less and in less annoying ways.
  - dao- 7y ago
    > Chrome (my default browser) actually nags me less and in less annoying ways. Because they just log you in without asking, as noted in the comment you're replying to. It also has more severe implications in Chrome privacy-wise, directly linking your Chrome profile with all kinds of other privacy-sensitive Google services. Since Google is in the business of making money from the data they have on you (and hence collects as much as it can), I'd be much more concerned about this than I am about my Firefox account.
    - wayneftw 7y ago
      I opted out of that once in Chrome and I never saw it again. I see no way to opt out of all the nags Firefox gives me.
  - blackearl 7y ago
    None of this is true on Windows
    - 7y ago
detritus 7y ago
I use FF all day, every day across two machines and I literally cannot think of what it is you are referring to here.
outadoc 7y ago
The exclamation mark is only shown when you're logged in but got logged out because of a problem. You can just remove your account whenever you want.
- giggles_giggles 7y ago
  You can also self host the upstream service if you want there features that come with logging in but don't want Mozilla to have the data: https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2014/05/08/firefox-accounts-sync-1-5-and-self-hosting/ https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2014/05/08/firefox-account...
  - bloopernova 7y ago
    I feel like this should be more widely known. I imagine there's a fair few large corporate IT departments that would love to host their own sync service.

by avian 7y ago

satya71 7y ago

One of those browsers tracks everything you do if you sign-in, the other does it only to increase retention, not to track your activities. Guess which is which?

anonymousab 7y ago
It would be better not to do [questionable thing] than to do it at all. I don't particularly care whether nagware functionality is benign or not.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  A common complaint with Firefox was that you couldn't sync between devices - even though that was perfectly possible! But apparently, people had a hard time finding the functionality. You might not consider that use case important, but I wouldn't call it questionable.
  - anonymousab 7y ago
    I'm amiable to this reasoning right up until software conveniently forgets that I told it "no, I don't care, stop bugging me about it". And again. It's the kind of "oops haha just a mistake that we did the bad thing again" shenanigans that Mozilla employees complain about Google doing.
    - Vinnl 7y ago
      That's fair.
- simias 7y ago
  Firefox sync is super convenient though, I don't really agree with you that it's a dark pattern. It does make using your browser more convenient across devices and I'm sure many people coming from chrome expect this to work out of the box especially since, AFAIK, google auto-logs you into Chrome as soon as it can. On the other hand I find Pocket a much more questionable addition.

bilkow 7y ago

This doesn't match my experience... When you install it, they show a page and the account icon. I believe that only on some major updates I've seen the account page again, which is a nice reminder to sync bookmarks (even though I don't use it). I always customize the toolbar upon installing and it (the icon) never came back or bothered me again.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

blackearl 7y ago

I've never seen the exclamation mark and I'm never signed in on my work computer. Meanwhile, Chrome signs you into the browser profile if you sign into any Google site and it's opt-out.

wayneftw 7y ago
They've got it plastered around the UI. It's the very top menu item. It's also in the Pocket address bar button right under where they advertise to you to "Sign up for Pocket. It's freeeeeee!" Not only that, but on new installs and after some updates Firefox nags you to sign up whenever it can, for instance when you log into a website - right after you save the password it will show some animated crap in the address bar to nag you to "Sign in to sync..." I just opened Firefox (on Linux no less) to confirm every single one of these things. Chrome (my default browser) actually nags me less and in less annoying ways.
- dao- 7y ago
  > Chrome (my default browser) actually nags me less and in less annoying ways. Because they just log you in without asking, as noted in the comment you're replying to. It also has more severe implications in Chrome privacy-wise, directly linking your Chrome profile with all kinds of other privacy-sensitive Google services. Since Google is in the business of making money from the data they have on you (and hence collects as much as it can), I'd be much more concerned about this than I am about my Firefox account.
  - wayneftw 7y ago
    I opted out of that once in Chrome and I never saw it again. I see no way to opt out of all the nags Firefox gives me.
- blackearl 7y ago
  None of this is true on Windows
  - 7y ago

detritus 7y ago

I use FF all day, every day across two machines and I literally cannot think of what it is you are referring to here.

outadoc 7y ago

The exclamation mark is only shown when you're logged in but got logged out because of a problem. You can just remove your account whenever you want.

giggles_giggles 7y ago
You can also self host the upstream service if you want there features that come with logging in but don't want Mozilla to have the data: https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2014/05/08/firefox-accounts-sync-1-5-and-self-hosting/ https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2014/05/08/firefox-account...
- bloopernova 7y ago
  I feel like this should be more widely known. I imagine there's a fair few large corporate IT departments that would love to host their own sync service.