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The first thing we talk about is the clothing we wear to work, that is poignant A lot of tech workers would classify themselves as neither white nor blue-colla

The first thing we talk about is the clothing we wear to work, that is poignant A lot of tech workers would classify themselves as neither white nor blue-collar because they wear t-shirts thus eschewing the whole conversation whereas technically they'd probably fall into the whitecollar category during any other phase of human history That in itself is the greatest cause of grief in this field the sore lack of common professional manners ethics and customs that causes a total breakdown of communication and culture

theFeller00 7y ago
tech workers are about as close of an equal mix between white and blue as you get. it is modern assembly line trash
BossingAround 7y ago
> That in itself is the greatest cause of grief in this field the sore lack of common professional manners ethics and customs that causes a total breakdown of communication and culture Are you suggesting tech workers, e.g. your average programmer, is unhappy because he or she lacks customs and ethics, which breaks down communication with the outside world?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- artsyca 7y ago
  If there even is a she within a fifty metre radius yes I'm telling you that so called tech workers aka code monkeys have graduated straight from the dorm to the open office and have no clue about anything that happened prior to the invention of the soy latte much less how to function in the real world of adult professionalism
  - sfgjhsjkghf 7y ago
    I agree with much of your observations about the degradation of civilization, but your understanding is flawed. Going back to some caricature of the Victorian area, where everyone is forced by rigid constraints into the same cookie cutter mold, isn't the solution to society's problems, it's the cause of it. You posted this comment some time ago: > "I've been in the industry for a long while now long enough to be past the stage of proving myself and looking more towards creating something of lasting value for the world and society and even my own legacy. > "Everyone around me from management to the HR apparatus and even my peers seem geared towards me remaining a non client facing worker bot content with my perks and not harboring any ambitions beyond 'solving challenging problems' as a means to elicit that dopamine rush towards the collective ego > "Growing up I chose computer science because it wasn't supposed to feel like work it was supposed to be a calling a duty but now the whole system is geared towards blind compliance and disengagement > "My good people, how can I break the endless cycle of mindless mechanical labour that has become the software business and become the consummate professional I've always wanted to be?" That's a very good question! The question is, what do you think "professionalism" is, exactly? Everyone being forced into bondage-and-discipline compliance? Like the Schutzstaffel officers who patrol this site to quickly and effectively suppress opinions contrary to the group-think, via vigorous use of the ban hammer, resulting in people continually making throwaway accounts and even pushing them from honest commentary toward purposeful trolling, due to their incessantly growing contempt of a society that oppresses their thoughts and opinions and ideas about living? More oppression, more forced compliance to somebody's arbitrary 1950s ideals, is that the answer to solving all of this chaos, you think?
chapium 7y ago
I'm struggling to see how wearing a specific style of clothing as connected to the following ideas A. common professional manners ethics and customs B. total breakdown of communication and culture* (exception that clothing correlates to the aesthetic aspect of culture) A shirt doesn't cause you to be on time, sincerely follow up on commitments, and solve business problems. (Part A) Do people struggle to communicate with people in different clothing? I don't quite get this. (Part B) What I do see is the insistence on wearing specific clothes to work being an unwelcome intrusion on people's lives. I'm very interested in your point of view on how the traditional clothing culture makes a difference in the workplace. This is one of those things that has always felt alien to me and I just go along with it to please management.
- artsyca 7y ago
  Chapium I'm glad you asked and I believe the explanation would fill a volume the size of the art of computer programming I want to encourage you to consider the sociological and epistemiological implications taking into account every relevant consideration of which there are a plethora and perhaps you may arrive at the conclusions I have that manners matter and manner of dress falls well within this broad scope Beyond that I'll encourage you to draw your own logical and intuitive reasoning to consider whether the unkempt genius is any more or less a genius than the kempt one and which one you'd rather work with all things being equal I can't possibly explain it better than to say that some men wear neckties out of genuine respect for their peers and I am one such man As a computer scientist I treat the necktie as a semaphore which it literally and figuratively is and as such let me propose the following game theory question based on the prisoners dilemma What are the odds your adversary will cooperate if he is wearing a necktie a) willingly b) unwillingly How about if you are both wearing neckties? (willingly and/or unwillingly) I know it's abstract but so are human relationships and we all know than software is based on cooperation dynamics of this nature at its core More than anything I'm sick of not knowing who around me just rolled out of bed ten minutes before showing up to standup
  - chapium 7y ago
    By all means, I don't mean for fellow workers to be unkempt, but relaxed outerwear can be dressed neatly. What bothers me is the song and dance of "professionalism" taking a seat before actually getting things done. You make a good point about neckties being a shared symbol of respect, but perhaps these come with some baggage as well. To me, a necktie also is a symbol of bureaucratic management. I propose a middle ground, not held by the unfortunate baggage of the status quo; and a symbol of humility among peers. At my workplace we shall all wear bow ties. Any color or pattern will do. This will unify us under a common symbol and we will know who is on board and who is not. > More than anything I'm sick of not knowing who around me just rolled out of bed ten minutes before showing up to standup. That gave me a chuckle, although isn't usually obvious who consistently performs like they just woke up 10 minutes earlier.

theFeller00 7y ago

tech workers are about as close of an equal mix between white and blue as you get. it is modern assembly line trash

BossingAround 7y ago

> That in itself is the greatest cause of grief in this field the sore lack of common professional manners ethics and customs that causes a total breakdown of communication and culture Are you suggesting tech workers, e.g. your average programmer, is unhappy because he or she lacks customs and ethics, which breaks down communication with the outside world?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
artsyca 7y ago
If there even is a she within a fifty metre radius yes I'm telling you that so called tech workers aka code monkeys have graduated straight from the dorm to the open office and have no clue about anything that happened prior to the invention of the soy latte much less how to function in the real world of adult professionalism
- sfgjhsjkghf 7y ago
  I agree with much of your observations about the degradation of civilization, but your understanding is flawed. Going back to some caricature of the Victorian area, where everyone is forced by rigid constraints into the same cookie cutter mold, isn't the solution to society's problems, it's the cause of it. You posted this comment some time ago: > "I've been in the industry for a long while now long enough to be past the stage of proving myself and looking more towards creating something of lasting value for the world and society and even my own legacy. > "Everyone around me from management to the HR apparatus and even my peers seem geared towards me remaining a non client facing worker bot content with my perks and not harboring any ambitions beyond 'solving challenging problems' as a means to elicit that dopamine rush towards the collective ego > "Growing up I chose computer science because it wasn't supposed to feel like work it was supposed to be a calling a duty but now the whole system is geared towards blind compliance and disengagement > "My good people, how can I break the endless cycle of mindless mechanical labour that has become the software business and become the consummate professional I've always wanted to be?" That's a very good question! The question is, what do you think "professionalism" is, exactly? Everyone being forced into bondage-and-discipline compliance? Like the Schutzstaffel officers who patrol this site to quickly and effectively suppress opinions contrary to the group-think, via vigorous use of the ban hammer, resulting in people continually making throwaway accounts and even pushing them from honest commentary toward purposeful trolling, due to their incessantly growing contempt of a society that oppresses their thoughts and opinions and ideas about living? More oppression, more forced compliance to somebody's arbitrary 1950s ideals, is that the answer to solving all of this chaos, you think?

chapium 7y ago

I'm struggling to see how wearing a specific style of clothing as connected to the following ideas A. common professional manners ethics and customs B. total breakdown of communication and culture* (exception that clothing correlates to the aesthetic aspect of culture) A shirt doesn't cause you to be on time, sincerely follow up on commitments, and solve business problems. (Part A) Do people struggle to communicate with people in different clothing? I don't quite get this. (Part B) What I do see is the insistence on wearing specific clothes to work being an unwelcome intrusion on people's lives. I'm very interested in your point of view on how the traditional clothing culture makes a difference in the workplace. This is one of those things that has always felt alien to me and I just go along with it to please management.

artsyca 7y ago
Chapium I'm glad you asked and I believe the explanation would fill a volume the size of the art of computer programming I want to encourage you to consider the sociological and epistemiological implications taking into account every relevant consideration of which there are a plethora and perhaps you may arrive at the conclusions I have that manners matter and manner of dress falls well within this broad scope Beyond that I'll encourage you to draw your own logical and intuitive reasoning to consider whether the unkempt genius is any more or less a genius than the kempt one and which one you'd rather work with all things being equal I can't possibly explain it better than to say that some men wear neckties out of genuine respect for their peers and I am one such man As a computer scientist I treat the necktie as a semaphore which it literally and figuratively is and as such let me propose the following game theory question based on the prisoners dilemma What are the odds your adversary will cooperate if he is wearing a necktie a) willingly b) unwillingly How about if you are both wearing neckties? (willingly and/or unwillingly) I know it's abstract but so are human relationships and we all know than software is based on cooperation dynamics of this nature at its core More than anything I'm sick of not knowing who around me just rolled out of bed ten minutes before showing up to standup
- chapium 7y ago
  By all means, I don't mean for fellow workers to be unkempt, but relaxed outerwear can be dressed neatly. What bothers me is the song and dance of "professionalism" taking a seat before actually getting things done. You make a good point about neckties being a shared symbol of respect, but perhaps these come with some baggage as well. To me, a necktie also is a symbol of bureaucratic management. I propose a middle ground, not held by the unfortunate baggage of the status quo; and a symbol of humility among peers. At my workplace we shall all wear bow ties. Any color or pattern will do. This will unify us under a common symbol and we will know who is on board and who is not. > More than anything I'm sick of not knowing who around me just rolled out of bed ten minutes before showing up to standup. That gave me a chuckle, although isn't usually obvious who consistently performs like they just woke up 10 minutes earlier.