4 ms·

Average tenure of an Amazon employee on the tech side is something like a year or so.

notyourwork 7y ago
Based on what citation? Here say isn’t useful to the conversation.
whoevercares 7y ago
The length of tenure by level would make more sense. Senior and Principal SDEs (L6&7) in Amazon are like semi and full god, while lower level ICs are design to “hire fast, fail fast”
- whateveracct 7y ago
  I think you gave it backwards. Or at least it goes both ways. Long tenure naturally results in becoming L6 if you have a boss who develops you and aims to get you there (+ understands how to work in the review/promotion system and check the boxes.) Maybe I misinterpreted, but it sounds like you deify L6 engineers as "better" and that's why they remain. I don't think that's exactly it lol. Also..people leaving in 2 years as L4/5s aren't "failing fast." They're bailing for better gigs with a few Amazon projects on their resume - I'd even go as far as to say that's many of their plans coming in!
  - guitarbill 7y ago
    It's a good plan. You can learn from some great engineers. But you definitely need other experiences, as Amazon's internal tooling feels like 2005 and isn't very transferable knowledge. (Why they don't spend more money on this is beyond me, the terrible tooling really ruins productivity.)
  - hef19898 7y ago
    Which is a very sensible plan to have. My biggest mistake was to not have an exit strategy I followed from day one. But than LVL 5, or 4, at Amazon isn't that bad. You have probably more responsibility than a LVL-6 equivalent at any other non-FAANG corp.
    - whateveracct 7y ago
      Heh, the guy who referred me even let me in on that common exit plan ;) I agree with you on Amazon not being so bad. I had a lot of autonomy and was asked to both be an engineer and build technical solutions and own processes end-to-end (which included some project management.) It was a great experience!
      - hef19898 7y ago
        Yeah, I wouldn't miss it neither! Just not for long term, unless you are one of the few exceptions. Nice guy that referred you! Not everyone is that open, usually people learn it the hard way.
  - whoevercares 7y ago
    For L6+ my point is more they remain because of the amount of authority/resources given and better fitness of the culture. Also I think there are many people stuck in L5 with 5+ years of tenure. That’s a good point that some people leave by plan. On the other hands there are tons of L4/5s get into “PIP” within a year or less and generally we know Amazon holds a lower bar at interviewing, that’s why I think it “fail fast”
whateveracct 7y ago
I'd say it's more around 2 thanks to their typical 2-year vesting cliff and one-year clawback on bonuses (which weighs the minimum towards 1-year and average further out). But yeah it's short.
- tinyhouse 7y ago
  It also depends on the share price. If the stock goes up, like it did in the last few years, then people keep getting "free" raises and stick around.
Pfhreak 7y ago
The number I heard (which was years ago) was that 18-24 months was closer to the truth. But yeah, not long either way.
- hef19898 7y ago
  Not just for the techies, other white collar employees have more or less the same tenure, from what I know.

Based on what citation? Here say isn’t useful to the conversation.

The length of tenure by level would make more sense. Senior and Principal SDEs (L6&7) in Amazon are like semi and full god, while lower level ICs are design to “hire fast, fail fast”

whateveracct 7y ago
I think you gave it backwards. Or at least it goes both ways. Long tenure naturally results in becoming L6 if you have a boss who develops you and aims to get you there (+ understands how to work in the review/promotion system and check the boxes.) Maybe I misinterpreted, but it sounds like you deify L6 engineers as "better" and that's why they remain. I don't think that's exactly it lol. Also..people leaving in 2 years as L4/5s aren't "failing fast." They're bailing for better gigs with a few Amazon projects on their resume - I'd even go as far as to say that's many of their plans coming in!
- guitarbill 7y ago
  It's a good plan. You can learn from some great engineers. But you definitely need other experiences, as Amazon's internal tooling feels like 2005 and isn't very transferable knowledge. (Why they don't spend more money on this is beyond me, the terrible tooling really ruins productivity.)
- hef19898 7y ago
  Which is a very sensible plan to have. My biggest mistake was to not have an exit strategy I followed from day one. But than LVL 5, or 4, at Amazon isn't that bad. You have probably more responsibility than a LVL-6 equivalent at any other non-FAANG corp.
  - whateveracct 7y ago
    Heh, the guy who referred me even let me in on that common exit plan ;) I agree with you on Amazon not being so bad. I had a lot of autonomy and was asked to both be an engineer and build technical solutions and own processes end-to-end (which included some project management.) It was a great experience!
    - hef19898 7y ago
      Yeah, I wouldn't miss it neither! Just not for long term, unless you are one of the few exceptions. Nice guy that referred you! Not everyone is that open, usually people learn it the hard way.
- whoevercares 7y ago
  For L6+ my point is more they remain because of the amount of authority/resources given and better fitness of the culture. Also I think there are many people stuck in L5 with 5+ years of tenure. That’s a good point that some people leave by plan. On the other hands there are tons of L4/5s get into “PIP” within a year or less and generally we know Amazon holds a lower bar at interviewing, that’s why I think it “fail fast”

whateveracct 7y ago

I'd say it's more around 2 thanks to their typical 2-year vesting cliff and one-year clawback on bonuses (which weighs the minimum towards 1-year and average further out). But yeah it's short.

tinyhouse 7y ago
It also depends on the share price. If the stock goes up, like it did in the last few years, then people keep getting "free" raises and stick around.

Pfhreak 7y ago

The number I heard (which was years ago) was that 18-24 months was closer to the truth. But yeah, not long either way.

hef19898 7y ago
Not just for the techies, other white collar employees have more or less the same tenure, from what I know.