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> but I feel like there's a majority that has at least respect for the cultural institution, even if we don't wish to participate. Most of the anti-religious s

> but I feel like there's a majority that has at least respect for the cultural institution, even if we don't wish to participate. Most of the anti-religious sentiment is expressed by invisible downvotes and flags, so people don't generally see how great it is here. > (Curiously, this might actually increase as the population becomes less religious, since the negative uses of religious teachings will also decrease proportionally.) I'm not convinced. People will be even less educated on what our religion teaches, so there'll just be more general confusion. As Fulton Sheen once put it, there aren't 100 people in the whole USA who hate the Catholic Church, but a great many who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be. Misconception and misrepresentation will only increase over time. > But frankly, what your post seems to indicate is that you lost the ability to share the joy of the mysteries of _why with the rest of us. I am sorry for your loss, even if you aren't. That's just the thing. The mysteries of _why were not actual mysteries, they're illusional, for lack of a better word. Whereas the mysteries of Jesus are very real and quite satisfying, intellectually and on every other level.

icebraining 7y ago
> Most of the anti-religious sentiment is expressed by invisible downvotes and flags, so people don't generally see how great it is here. Downvotes and flags aren't invisible, they're shown by comments becoming grey and [dead], respectively (the latter can only be seen by people who have that option enabled, which I do). The points also influence the ordering in a thread, and I often see posts respectful of religion at the top. What I also see are people seeing their own posts downvoted and deciding it must be due to a particular reason, which I often disagree with. > I'm not convinced. People will be even less educated on what our religion teaches, so there'll just be more general confusion. As Fulton Sheen once put it, there aren't 100 people in the whole USA who hate the Catholic Church, but a great many who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be. Misconception and misrepresentation will only increase over time. People don't hate what they don't know; how many people today hate the Manicheans? People hate what they feel as threatening. The Catholic Church increasingly doesn't, in my opinion. > The mysteries of _why were not actual mysteries, they're illusional, for lack of a better word. Not everyone shares the fetish of the authentic. Of course they're an illusion.
- sdegutis 7y ago
  I'm surprised you would call a genuine pursuit of authentic truth a fetish, and admit to enjoying an illusion. But I guess I shouldn't be. That's why people pass on the Santa Claus tradition, and those who enjoyed it when they were kids now enjoy MCU and Star Wars movies in their place, even reading and writing fan fiction about it. Every shred of evidence throughout my life has convinced me that anybody who loves truth will eventually hear it in Jesus's voice, and those who don't will scoff at the idea exactly as Pontius Pilate did.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    > I'm surprised you would call a genuine pursuit of authentic truth a fetish That's an overreaching interpretation of what I wrote. One can pursue the truth without declaring everything else as worthless. Plus, I dispute the idea that "non-authentic" mysteries can't convey truth. > now enjoy MCU and Star Wars movies in their place, even reading and writing fan fiction about it. Well, I don't. I do enjoy, for example, The Man Who Was Thursday by GK Chesterton. Is the mystery of Sunday illusory? I care not one whit.
    - sdegutis 7y ago
      > That's an overreaching interpretation of what I wrote. That's a fair point. I'm extrapolating a bit from many other people I know, including nominal Christians and Catholics and my past self. > One can pursue the truth without declaring everything else as worthless. Plus, I dispute the idea that "non-authentic" mysteries can't convey truth. I agree, which is why I said that the allure of the character of _why (and Mary Poppins and Willie Wonka) is actually a shadow of Jesus, pointing to Him. But trivial pursuits for their own sake are too common, leading people to stop halfway through the journey to Truth because they're satisfied with an illusion. This is the tragedy I lament on HN in general and this thread in particular. > GK Chesterton If you enjoyed him, you'll enjoy Fulton Sheen too I suspect. The most thought provoking philosopher of the 20th century. Also, I have a friend who was convinced of becoming Christian by CK Chesterton but stopped short of Catholicism. Reminds me of CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien.

icebraining 7y ago

> Most of the anti-religious sentiment is expressed by invisible downvotes and flags, so people don't generally see how great it is here. Downvotes and flags aren't invisible, they're shown by comments becoming grey and [dead], respectively (the latter can only be seen by people who have that option enabled, which I do). The points also influence the ordering in a thread, and I often see posts respectful of religion at the top. What I also see are people seeing their own posts downvoted and deciding it must be due to a particular reason, which I often disagree with. > I'm not convinced. People will be even less educated on what our religion teaches, so there'll just be more general confusion. As Fulton Sheen once put it, there aren't 100 people in the whole USA who hate the Catholic Church, but a great many who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be. Misconception and misrepresentation will only increase over time. People don't hate what they don't know; how many people today hate the Manicheans? People hate what they feel as threatening. The Catholic Church increasingly doesn't, in my opinion. > The mysteries of _why were not actual mysteries, they're illusional, for lack of a better word. Not everyone shares the fetish of the authentic. Of course they're an illusion.

sdegutis 7y ago
I'm surprised you would call a genuine pursuit of authentic truth a fetish, and admit to enjoying an illusion. But I guess I shouldn't be. That's why people pass on the Santa Claus tradition, and those who enjoyed it when they were kids now enjoy MCU and Star Wars movies in their place, even reading and writing fan fiction about it. Every shred of evidence throughout my life has convinced me that anybody who loves truth will eventually hear it in Jesus's voice, and those who don't will scoff at the idea exactly as Pontius Pilate did.
- icebraining 7y ago
  > I'm surprised you would call a genuine pursuit of authentic truth a fetish That's an overreaching interpretation of what I wrote. One can pursue the truth without declaring everything else as worthless. Plus, I dispute the idea that "non-authentic" mysteries can't convey truth. > now enjoy MCU and Star Wars movies in their place, even reading and writing fan fiction about it. Well, I don't. I do enjoy, for example, The Man Who Was Thursday by GK Chesterton. Is the mystery of Sunday illusory? I care not one whit.
  - sdegutis 7y ago
    > That's an overreaching interpretation of what I wrote. That's a fair point. I'm extrapolating a bit from many other people I know, including nominal Christians and Catholics and my past self. > One can pursue the truth without declaring everything else as worthless. Plus, I dispute the idea that "non-authentic" mysteries can't convey truth. I agree, which is why I said that the allure of the character of _why (and Mary Poppins and Willie Wonka) is actually a shadow of Jesus, pointing to Him. But trivial pursuits for their own sake are too common, leading people to stop halfway through the journey to Truth because they're satisfied with an illusion. This is the tragedy I lament on HN in general and this thread in particular. > GK Chesterton If you enjoyed him, you'll enjoy Fulton Sheen too I suspect. The most thought provoking philosopher of the 20th century. Also, I have a friend who was convinced of becoming Christian by CK Chesterton but stopped short of Catholicism. Reminds me of CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien.