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Eh... It's more complicated than that. The US ATPs have a few other hoops to jump through beyond the exam. There are ground training requirements and a checkr

Eh... It's more complicated than that. The US ATPs have a few other hoops to jump through beyond the exam. There are ground training requirements and a checkride to high precision standards. The US is also unusual in requiring 1500 flight hours of experience.

markdown 7y ago
> The US ATPs have a few other hoops to jump through beyond the exam. There are ground training requirements and a checkride to high precision standards. The US is also unusual in requiring 1500 flight hours of experience. It's the same in Australia, hence I didn't mention those requirements. The only difference was the single theory test vs the 7 that CASA requires. > The US is also unusual in requiring 1500 flight hours of experience. Not unusual at all. 1500 hours is the standard in most places AFAIK.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_transport_pilot_licence#Differences_between_FAA_and_EASA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_transport_pilot_licenc... The 1500 hour rule was initially instated by the FAA. CASA followed suit but EASA did not for co pilots.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  > Not unusual at all. 1500 hours is the standard in most places AFAIK. You're fixating on a number rather than the meaning behind the number. The US ATP certificate is 1,500 hours, and has been for a long time, but now an ATP is required for US airliner operations. (There is also an R-ATP, starting at 1,000 hours.) Before 2010 (ie. before Colgan), a commercial multi (about 250 hours) was sufficient for Second-in-command" (SIC) globally. Only the US requires ATP for all stations, and it's because of Congressional "we have to do something." As a result, all US "regional airlines" (aka union-busting pricks) have either stopped operating, or are in the process of shutting down, since there's no qualified cheap airline pilots. Having said that, there is a cutout if you attend a Part 141 school: "If you complete a degree in an aviation field from a qualified university, you can get a Restricted ATP certificate, or R-ATP, once you've accumulated as little as 1,000 hours of flight time and are at least 21 years old." Sadly, the "aviation degree" is a poor choice for most students, as they need a degree in another field like accounting in case they fail their FAA medical, thus instantly ending their pilot career. https://www.flyingmag.com/story/training/atp-certificate-requirements/ https://www.flyingmag.com/story/training/atp-certificate-req... "Although it did nothing to address the specific causes of the crash – improper stall recovery technique and pilot fatigue" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 The above pilot training scenario is bad, but the airline mechanics situation is far worse. Thanks to our lawyer-driven political system, we've hollowed out the leader in aviation into something resembling a failed African state. Source: commercially-rated pilot with some ATP training
  - markdown 7y ago
    Thanks, that's good to know. In Oceania (Australia/NZ/Pacific Islands) you can get what's called a frozen ATPL upon completion of all the necessary theory exams. You qualify to attempt the practical flight test to get a full unrestricted ATPL upon completing 1500 hours of (AFAIK) multi-engine jet time. You need an unrestricted ATPL to captain an airliner, and as a first officer on flights longer than X hours (where the captain is expected to leave his post to rest at some point). Source: not a pilot, but friends with a couple of them.
  - heelix 7y ago
    To be fair, prior to the 1500 hour rule, the insurance companies dictated how many hours were the minimum. I'm not sure I knew anyone who could get into an "ATP" class (what is that, 10+ passenger?) aircraft with less than 800 hours. Depending on how the market was doing, 1000+ hours did not seem abnormal. Getting that 1500 hours now is usually by instructing students who are trying to kill you on a regular basis or dropping meat missiles on the weekend to build up the time. Not easy flying for sure. I've got a lot of respect for someone who did 500+ hours of instructing. The military guys program is very rigorous for the hours they spend in the air. I can't wait for things to thaw out enough to do some pleasure flying this Spring.
  - bronco21016 7y ago
    > As a result, all US "regional airlines" (aka union-busting pricks) have either stopped operating, or are in the process of shutting down, since there's no qualified cheap airline pilots. Uh, what? Regional airline pilots are not at all ‘Union-busting pricks’. Most are also members of ALPA who represents a large percentage of the major airline pilots as well. Regional airlines exist because airline management groups were able to get their pilots to relax scope clauses on the smaller side of operations. In many cases these scope clauses became loosened up in bankruptcy. No pilots at regional airlines lobbied for this to take jobs from mainline carriers. 99% of regional airline pilots want to make it to a major carrier. Major carriers practically require a pilot to gain experience at a regional airline before they will consider hiring them. Regional airlines are a product of airline management and bankruptcy law and you’re practically calling the pilots scabs. You’re blaming the wrong group. Also, regional airlines have been consolidating which is good for employees long-term (some are facing short-term setbacks in the midst of the consolidation) and for customers who hate riding on tiny regional jets.

markdown 7y ago

> The US ATPs have a few other hoops to jump through beyond the exam. There are ground training requirements and a checkride to high precision standards. The US is also unusual in requiring 1500 flight hours of experience. It's the same in Australia, hence I didn't mention those requirements. The only difference was the single theory test vs the 7 that CASA requires. > The US is also unusual in requiring 1500 flight hours of experience. Not unusual at all. 1500 hours is the standard in most places AFAIK.

AWildC182 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_transport_pilot_licence#Differences_between_FAA_and_EASA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_transport_pilot_licenc... The 1500 hour rule was initially instated by the FAA. CASA followed suit but EASA did not for co pilots.
redis_mlc 7y ago
> Not unusual at all. 1500 hours is the standard in most places AFAIK. You're fixating on a number rather than the meaning behind the number. The US ATP certificate is 1,500 hours, and has been for a long time, but now an ATP is required for US airliner operations. (There is also an R-ATP, starting at 1,000 hours.) Before 2010 (ie. before Colgan), a commercial multi (about 250 hours) was sufficient for Second-in-command" (SIC) globally. Only the US requires ATP for all stations, and it's because of Congressional "we have to do something." As a result, all US "regional airlines" (aka union-busting pricks) have either stopped operating, or are in the process of shutting down, since there's no qualified cheap airline pilots. Having said that, there is a cutout if you attend a Part 141 school: "If you complete a degree in an aviation field from a qualified university, you can get a Restricted ATP certificate, or R-ATP, once you've accumulated as little as 1,000 hours of flight time and are at least 21 years old." Sadly, the "aviation degree" is a poor choice for most students, as they need a degree in another field like accounting in case they fail their FAA medical, thus instantly ending their pilot career. https://www.flyingmag.com/story/training/atp-certificate-requirements/ https://www.flyingmag.com/story/training/atp-certificate-req... "Although it did nothing to address the specific causes of the crash – improper stall recovery technique and pilot fatigue" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407 The above pilot training scenario is bad, but the airline mechanics situation is far worse. Thanks to our lawyer-driven political system, we've hollowed out the leader in aviation into something resembling a failed African state. Source: commercially-rated pilot with some ATP training
- markdown 7y ago
  Thanks, that's good to know. In Oceania (Australia/NZ/Pacific Islands) you can get what's called a frozen ATPL upon completion of all the necessary theory exams. You qualify to attempt the practical flight test to get a full unrestricted ATPL upon completing 1500 hours of (AFAIK) multi-engine jet time. You need an unrestricted ATPL to captain an airliner, and as a first officer on flights longer than X hours (where the captain is expected to leave his post to rest at some point). Source: not a pilot, but friends with a couple of them.
- heelix 7y ago
  To be fair, prior to the 1500 hour rule, the insurance companies dictated how many hours were the minimum. I'm not sure I knew anyone who could get into an "ATP" class (what is that, 10+ passenger?) aircraft with less than 800 hours. Depending on how the market was doing, 1000+ hours did not seem abnormal. Getting that 1500 hours now is usually by instructing students who are trying to kill you on a regular basis or dropping meat missiles on the weekend to build up the time. Not easy flying for sure. I've got a lot of respect for someone who did 500+ hours of instructing. The military guys program is very rigorous for the hours they spend in the air. I can't wait for things to thaw out enough to do some pleasure flying this Spring.
- bronco21016 7y ago
  > As a result, all US "regional airlines" (aka union-busting pricks) have either stopped operating, or are in the process of shutting down, since there's no qualified cheap airline pilots. Uh, what? Regional airline pilots are not at all ‘Union-busting pricks’. Most are also members of ALPA who represents a large percentage of the major airline pilots as well. Regional airlines exist because airline management groups were able to get their pilots to relax scope clauses on the smaller side of operations. In many cases these scope clauses became loosened up in bankruptcy. No pilots at regional airlines lobbied for this to take jobs from mainline carriers. 99% of regional airline pilots want to make it to a major carrier. Major carriers practically require a pilot to gain experience at a regional airline before they will consider hiring them. Regional airlines are a product of airline management and bankruptcy law and you’re practically calling the pilots scabs. You’re blaming the wrong group. Also, regional airlines have been consolidating which is good for employees long-term (some are facing short-term setbacks in the midst of the consolidation) and for customers who hate riding on tiny regional jets.