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>as physical property rights ... >We should rather call IP an intellectual monopoly privilege, than a right to a piece of property. I hope you don't overestim

>as physical property rights ... >We should rather call IP an intellectual monopoly privilege, than a right to a piece of property. I hope you don't overestimate what physical property rights are, in particular that typical "fee simple" title is basically the license ("monopoly privilege"?) to a real estate vs. allodial title which is almost impossible, at least in the US nowdays.

iwwr 16y ago
Thanks for the reference, btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title I didn't know that particular term. But I would distinguish rights from their actual recognition. Rights can exist without them having to be recognized. They can't be taken away, just infringed against. If someone has been wrongly imprisoned, his rights still exist, even if they are being broken systematically. Also, the difference between IP as a 'right' and as a 'privilege' consists in the difficulty of arranging for a system of IPs in a world without a monopolistic enforcer (or 'privilege granter'). It could be just that IP is a new phenomenon and our social systems are not yet prepared to deal with it. It could also be that IP is falsely recognized and their enforcement further breaks existing rights.
- VladRussian 16y ago
  >Rights can exist without them having to be recognized. >They can't be taken away, just infringed against. Property rights - it is government license to you for the exclusive (subject to zoning and other laws/rules) use for a specific parcel of land. That infringes upon all Earth's creatures' (humans including) rights for that specific parcel of land. The same way IP rights - government grants you the license for the exclusive (subject to various laws/rules) use for an idea, sound, symbol... That infringes upon all Earth's creatures' (humans including) right for that idea, sound, symbol... It is like in logic/mathematics - the same basic rules create the same structure. The nature of individual objects doesn't matter. The IP space is undergoing the same parcelization, zoning, fencing, etc... (RIAA as a crazy city council) Actually, so far we've seen only beginning of this process ... >Also, the difference between IP as a 'right' and as a 'privilege' consists in the difficulty of arranging for a system of IPs in a world without a monopolistic enforcer (or 'privilege granter'). This is what World Wars are for - solving such problems in the specific areas of rights, specifically real property rights, human rights, etc...

iwwr 16y ago

Thanks for the reference, btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title I didn't know that particular term. But I would distinguish rights from their actual recognition. Rights can exist without them having to be recognized. They can't be taken away, just infringed against. If someone has been wrongly imprisoned, his rights still exist, even if they are being broken systematically. Also, the difference between IP as a 'right' and as a 'privilege' consists in the difficulty of arranging for a system of IPs in a world without a monopolistic enforcer (or 'privilege granter'). It could be just that IP is a new phenomenon and our social systems are not yet prepared to deal with it. It could also be that IP is falsely recognized and their enforcement further breaks existing rights.

VladRussian 16y ago
>Rights can exist without them having to be recognized. >They can't be taken away, just infringed against. Property rights - it is government license to you for the exclusive (subject to zoning and other laws/rules) use for a specific parcel of land. That infringes upon all Earth's creatures' (humans including) rights for that specific parcel of land. The same way IP rights - government grants you the license for the exclusive (subject to various laws/rules) use for an idea, sound, symbol... That infringes upon all Earth's creatures' (humans including) right for that idea, sound, symbol... It is like in logic/mathematics - the same basic rules create the same structure. The nature of individual objects doesn't matter. The IP space is undergoing the same parcelization, zoning, fencing, etc... (RIAA as a crazy city council) Actually, so far we've seen only beginning of this process ... >Also, the difference between IP as a 'right' and as a 'privilege' consists in the difficulty of arranging for a system of IPs in a world without a monopolistic enforcer (or 'privilege granter'). This is what World Wars are for - solving such problems in the specific areas of rights, specifically real property rights, human rights, etc...