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by davidu 16y ago

burgerbrain 16y ago
I don't know you, and haven't conversed with you, so I can't speak for how you support Apple. I simply oppose people who will defend any action, no matter how absurd, because they support the people behind that action in most other cases. You'll see all sorts of gymnastics used to justify it, but it really boils down to people supporting things they wouldn't normally, were they outside of context of their 'affiliation'. You see this a lot in politics (I used to do this myself, before I realized how silly it was), and you see it with popular consumer brands as well.
- davidu 16y ago
  I don't think I was hiding the fact that a big part of my Apple support comes equally from my distrust of Google than my love of Apple. I just look at the wreckage each has created and would pick Apple's wreckage over Google's any day. I'm a bit surprised that people find my position to be unusual. I think it represents reasonable behavior. But I often feel this way on HN. :-/
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - Natsu 16y ago
    I would honestly like to know what "wreckage" Google has created? Granted, I probably haven't experienced the most likely types (domain gets a penalty, webmaster doesn't understand how to fix it, or that sort of thing). Most of the time, they spend their days trying to make information open and accessible to everyone, which I love. In contrast, given the chance, Apple would control everything I do on my computer and charge me for it. No doubt that computer would be beautiful and it would work very well, but I prefer to manage on my own.
- bane 16y ago
  People tend to build their identities around their affiliation. Attacking Apple probably makes him feel like you are attacking him. Similarly his support of Apple is merely him supporting his own identity. It's silly, I know, but people do that all the time. It's freakishly hard for people caught in the identity/affiliation trap to disentangle that aspect of their psyche's. It's often why you can observe fantastic levels of cognitive dissonance in people over politics or religion or other things that people build affiliation around...it's simply easier to think inconsistently than to untangle one's own identity. Rational evaluation simply goes out the window since identity is primal, emotional. Apple is the best in the world at building the link between identity and affiliation. They don't just sell stuff, they sell an identity. Being an Apple fan is being one of the cool kids, it's part of the "in" crowd, it keeps you from being a boring accountant looking guy in a suit, it's hip, it goes against "the man", etc. All of these are what Apple's advertisements sell, not their stuff. Apple's advertisements don't just list off features and talk about why they are better, they show cool looking people dancing in silhouette, or hip young dudes looking disdainfully on a suit wearing PC user, or a colorful Olympic athlete throwing hammers at gray talking heads, etc. etc. etc. "Buying Apple makes you cool" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Imamacimapc.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Imamacimapc.jp... "Buying Apple makes you stand out in a crowd" http://www.iphonefootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mac-ads.jpg http://www.iphonefootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/ma... "Buying Apple makes you an olympian" http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/04/images/apple-1984.jpg http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/04/images/apple-1984.jpg "Buying Apple makes you an artist" http://top-technology-reviews.com/uploadfiles/top-technology-reviewscom-1289719239/the-beatles-invade-apple-take-over-website-itunes-tv-ads-and-yes-even-ping-_1.png http://top-technology-reviews.com/uploadfiles/top-technology... "Buying Apple makes you a great dancer" http://adstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/apple.jpg http://adstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/apple.jpg "Buying Apple makes you smart like Einstein" http://ivovodanovic.cl/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/old-apple-einstein.jpg http://ivovodanovic.cl/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/old-apple-... "Buying Apple makes you a leader among men" http://adhdrollercoaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/apple_think_different.jpg http://adhdrollercoaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/appl... etc. etc. etc. Pick a positive trait, things that people want to be and Apple has probably run an ad campaign around it. It's why people line up around the block to buy a new Apple product sight unseen. They need to show their affiliation with the club of Apple. Apple doesn't advertise cute, or quirky, or super technical, they advertise the kind of person that people want to be. They advertise the quarterback in HS or the head cheerleader. They advertise Martin Luther King JR. and Einstein. They advertise the philosophical cool guy with the vintage yet cool outfit that hangs around coffee shops and debates French literature. They don't advertise the nerdy guy in his parent's basement, or the D&D geek. They don't advertise the quiet genius, toiling away on hard and esoteric problems for years on end, they advertise leaders! They don't even really advertise "ease of use", "great price", "best specs". They advertise a coherent image. And then, to close the deal? They actually provide a pretty nice piece of hardware and some pretty decent software that's well integrated, well thought out and generally easy to use. This justifies the entire image building exercise. So the moral to my story is that, don't get frustrated with people who appear to have useless blind allegiance to the cult of Apple. What you are asking them to do is to be objectively critical of themselves, which to be honest, almost no one is able to do. (full disclosure, I have plenty of areas where I have this problem myself, I guess it's just basic human nature)

Comments all removed.

by davidu 16y ago

Comments all removed.

I don't know you, and haven't conversed with you, so I can't speak for how you support Apple. I simply oppose people who will defend any action, no matter how absurd, because they support the people behind that action in most other cases. You'll see all sorts of gymnastics used to justify it, but it really boils down to people supporting things they wouldn't normally, were they outside of context of their 'affiliation'. You see this a lot in politics (I used to do this myself, before I realized how silly it was), and you see it with popular consumer brands as well.

davidu 16y ago
I don't think I was hiding the fact that a big part of my Apple support comes equally from my distrust of Google than my love of Apple. I just look at the wreckage each has created and would pick Apple's wreckage over Google's any day. I'm a bit surprised that people find my position to be unusual. I think it represents reasonable behavior. But I often feel this way on HN. :-/
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Natsu 16y ago
  I would honestly like to know what "wreckage" Google has created? Granted, I probably haven't experienced the most likely types (domain gets a penalty, webmaster doesn't understand how to fix it, or that sort of thing). Most of the time, they spend their days trying to make information open and accessible to everyone, which I love. In contrast, given the chance, Apple would control everything I do on my computer and charge me for it. No doubt that computer would be beautiful and it would work very well, but I prefer to manage on my own.
bane 16y ago
People tend to build their identities around their affiliation. Attacking Apple probably makes him feel like you are attacking him. Similarly his support of Apple is merely him supporting his own identity. It's silly, I know, but people do that all the time. It's freakishly hard for people caught in the identity/affiliation trap to disentangle that aspect of their psyche's. It's often why you can observe fantastic levels of cognitive dissonance in people over politics or religion or other things that people build affiliation around...it's simply easier to think inconsistently than to untangle one's own identity. Rational evaluation simply goes out the window since identity is primal, emotional. Apple is the best in the world at building the link between identity and affiliation. They don't just sell stuff, they sell an identity. Being an Apple fan is being one of the cool kids, it's part of the "in" crowd, it keeps you from being a boring accountant looking guy in a suit, it's hip, it goes against "the man", etc. All of these are what Apple's advertisements sell, not their stuff. Apple's advertisements don't just list off features and talk about why they are better, they show cool looking people dancing in silhouette, or hip young dudes looking disdainfully on a suit wearing PC user, or a colorful Olympic athlete throwing hammers at gray talking heads, etc. etc. etc. "Buying Apple makes you cool" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Imamacimapc.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Imamacimapc.jp... "Buying Apple makes you stand out in a crowd" http://www.iphonefootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mac-ads.jpg http://www.iphonefootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/ma... "Buying Apple makes you an olympian" http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/04/images/apple-1984.jpg http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/04/images/apple-1984.jpg "Buying Apple makes you an artist" http://top-technology-reviews.com/uploadfiles/top-technology-reviewscom-1289719239/the-beatles-invade-apple-take-over-website-itunes-tv-ads-and-yes-even-ping-_1.png http://top-technology-reviews.com/uploadfiles/top-technology... "Buying Apple makes you a great dancer" http://adstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/apple.jpg http://adstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/apple.jpg "Buying Apple makes you smart like Einstein" http://ivovodanovic.cl/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/old-apple-einstein.jpg http://ivovodanovic.cl/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/old-apple-... "Buying Apple makes you a leader among men" http://adhdrollercoaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/apple_think_different.jpg http://adhdrollercoaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/appl... etc. etc. etc. Pick a positive trait, things that people want to be and Apple has probably run an ad campaign around it. It's why people line up around the block to buy a new Apple product sight unseen. They need to show their affiliation with the club of Apple. Apple doesn't advertise cute, or quirky, or super technical, they advertise the kind of person that people want to be. They advertise the quarterback in HS or the head cheerleader. They advertise Martin Luther King JR. and Einstein. They advertise the philosophical cool guy with the vintage yet cool outfit that hangs around coffee shops and debates French literature. They don't advertise the nerdy guy in his parent's basement, or the D&D geek. They don't advertise the quiet genius, toiling away on hard and esoteric problems for years on end, they advertise leaders! They don't even really advertise "ease of use", "great price", "best specs". They advertise a coherent image. And then, to close the deal? They actually provide a pretty nice piece of hardware and some pretty decent software that's well integrated, well thought out and generally easy to use. This justifies the entire image building exercise. So the moral to my story is that, don't get frustrated with people who appear to have useless blind allegiance to the cult of Apple. What you are asking them to do is to be objectively critical of themselves, which to be honest, almost no one is able to do. (full disclosure, I have plenty of areas where I have this problem myself, I guess it's just basic human nature)