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Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure

Has anyone here actually looked at the "anti-Firefox" ad in question? It's literally a tile that says "Still using Firefox? Edge is here!". I'm not really sure what we expected here. This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. All big companies do weird anti competitive things. This isn't one of those things. I know I'll likely get downvoted for this opinion, but to many commenters here saying things like "this is why I don't believe in the new Microsoft or that Microsoft has changed", I'm not entirely sure how some meh ad telling you to switch your browser counteracts things like SQL Server on Linux or Azure supporting Linux VMs, or Microsoft's purchase of github, or .net core being cross platform, etc. I don't generally care to support a large company, nor am I an active developer or user in the microsoft stack, but the over reaction is a bit absurd. Does anyone who uses Firefox realize for a long while they were primarily funded by having Google pay them to be the default search engine?

srhngpr 7y ago
I agree with you. This comment should be higher up as it's more objective to this whole situation than a lot of the top comments that quickly resort to Microsoft bashing and "remembering the old Microsoft is the same Microsoft" type of comments.
deaps 7y ago
It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the application that threw the prompt...That might actually be helpful. The fact is, if Microsoft wants me to switch to Edge, they need to tell me the benefits. A chart will do fine comparing it to other common options. I don't need a targeted ad that proves they know and keep track of what browser I'm actually using. That's literally ridiculous.
- whywhywhywhy 7y ago
  Apple does the same sort of thing these days, Music.app on my phone keeps showing me a full screen ad for Apple Music around a month, dismissed it about 5 times now.
  - nydel 7y ago
    it's everywhere outside of overtly freedom-concerned software. the idiots are winning.
    - neuronic 7y ago
      Like the (now past) Amazon integration in Ubuntu?
      - a1369209993 7y ago
        > freedom-concerned software. Thank you for giving a example of why we can't use the term "free software" any more. Also fuck Ubuntu.
        thefunnyman 7y ago
        It seems a bit absurd that this is still a reason to say 'fuck ubuntu' when they listened to user feedback and reversed that feature. I can't think of any other similar missteps in recent years.
        a1369209993 7y ago
        > I can't think of any other similar missteps in recent years. I stopped using Ubuntu a while ago due to a large number of individually minor "missteps", so I don't have any equally blatant/memorable (or particularly recent) examples, but there were enough of them to be a constant hazard of updating anything. (For similarly large, there's systemd and wayland, but neither those are specific to Ubuntu.) Also, someone (for analogy) dumping toxic waste into a drinking water supply, and then listening to feedback and ceasing to dump toxic waste into the water supply, still seems like a damn good reason to say "fuck those guys in particular" to me, and that's what shipping malware in a software update amounts to.
black_puppydog 7y ago
This is Microsoft using their desktop operating system market share to drive their web browser market share. That's pretty much what they got sued for before. Given, their market position in desktop might be a different one now than back then. But it's still quite close to what antitrust laws were written against. Also saying "oh all corps do stuff like that calm down" is a really bad defense IMO.
- zeusk 7y ago
  Try using any Google property without chrome, or try using any iOS device without safari. This is pretty harmless in my opinion.
  - codewithcheese 7y ago
    Your reasoning does not make it harmless, it makes Microsoft the same as Google and Apple.
    - inviromentalist 7y ago
      People defend the walled garden of Apple. But I think it's just post purchase rationalization.
      - Razengan 7y ago
        People enter the walled garden expecting a walled garden and desiring a walled garden. Microsoft’s behavior is like taking a stroll in a forest or open field and suddenly having walls erected around you and cameras pointed at you.
    - zeusk 7y ago
      harmful is google purposefully blocking their properties to mobile edge when everything worked with changed U/A string. Concerning at best, since they're using first party grounds for advertising but that does not make it harmful.
  - 7y ago
commoner 7y ago
Many people did not appreciate Microsoft's acquisition of GitHub, and Azure wouldn't be very successful if it didn't support Linux (the predominant server operating system). It is completely reasonable to be skeptical of Microsoft's actions here, as they have a history of anticompetitive behavior in the web browser market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu
- thefunnyman 7y ago
  Most people, myself included, were skeptical when Microsoft bought GitHub and assumed it would change for the worse. In this case I'm happy to have been proven wrong and I've seen nothing but improvements to GitHub following it's acquisition. They pretty much immediately made private repos free if you have less than four contributors and have allowed GitHub to continue to deliver awesome features like GitHub actions for free to open source repos.
  - commoner 7y ago
    While that was an improvement from before, it pales in comparison to GitLab.com's free private repos with no contributor restrictions. Additionally, GitLab.com offers free continuous integration/delivery for both open source and proprietary repos. GitLab is also source-available. https://about.gitlab.com/pricing https://about.gitlab.com/pricing https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/program https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/program GitHub is doing the bare minimum to compete while relying on network effects from its existing user base - better than nothing, but not enough to justify showering Microsoft with praise.
selectodude 7y ago
>Does anyone who uses Firefox realize for a long while they were primarily funded by having Google pay them to be the default search engine? They still are.
mnm1 7y ago
It's probably not just the ads, but the fact that they have complete, unlimited access to one's machine to install apps and copy/modify data as they see fit that makes them worse than the MS of the 90's. To me, it's incredible anyone who cares at all about security would even consider Windows at this point, let alone large companies with company secrets and other private information. MS is likely mining through any file or data on any machine it wants. This invasion of privacy in many ways eclipses FB and Google, which provide services that can be avoided. This data collection is unavoidable on Windows. We don't even know the extent of the data collection, let alone what they're doing with it and they are doing it something like 90% of the installed PC user base or whatever their market share is these days. That's an incredible surveillance machine, likely the largest in the world. It's amazing to me people who work in tech can defend such practices and claim they are not a big deal. A lot of people just don't care at all about security, judging by their use of Windows.
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
> This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. No, it's one thing (OS) pushing another (browser). The equivalent would be opening chrome and it popping up a message, "Still using Windows? Click here to upgrade to ChromeOS!"
- Amezarak 7y ago
  I think it's more like Google harassing you to install Chrome when using any Google property, or, even worse, getting it packaged into every installer under the sun, so if you forgot to uncheck the "install Google Chrome" box while installing a new version of Java, congratulations, you now have Google Chrome. I'm not defending this behavior, but unfortunately the norm has been set.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    Yes, I agree that it is exactly like that: completely unacceptable, and it should be grounds for antitrust action.
alxlaz 7y ago
So I guess you were talking about my post? Since I'm one of the "this is why I don't believe in the new Microsoft or that Microsoft has changed" people you mention :-). First of all, this isn't just about this ad. As I said in my comment, it's "this -- and every other screw-up in the same vein". Like the other Start Menu ads, like the dark patterns in privacy-related config settings. But okay, let's talk about this one specifically. The "old Microsoft" (specifically, to put it in context: the one with the Halloween Documents [0]) that I don't trust (I want to emphasize this part for reasons that I'll explain in a minute) is a company that: 1. Specifically used its dominating position in the operating systems industry to push its browser and eliminate competition in that space 2. Engaged in competition partly by spreading FUD about other products (note that this is not a post-hoc exaggeration: the internal memos specifically call FUD by this name, and refer to it as an entrenched, well-known internal technique) 3. Was deliberately dismissive of competing open source software in its public statements, even though it sometimes uses it internally 4. Set out a strategy to compete against open source (note though -- I think the documents predate the term "open source"?) that went beyond merely spreading FUD, and was based on embracing, then extending existing protocols in incompatible ways. This "meh ad" is just the latest in Microsoft's constant, and extremely irritating push for Edge (e.g. see the system's behaviour when you try to change the default browser). It's the same stuff we've seen back in 1998 -- not as aggressive, seeing how Microsoft nearly got broken up when it tried something that aggressive, but it's in the same vein. And looks very much like #1 above. It's also not happening just in the browser space. For instance, until recently, Windows wouldn't shut up about the damn OneDrive thing, either. Things are different in the cloud and server space -- where SQL Server, Azure and .NET core happen -- because Microsoft isn't even close to being in a dominating position. Of course Microsoft can't elude competition there. They could ban Linux from Azure if they wanted to, but more than half of their marketshare would evaporate with it, too. But I don't see any reason to think that this is part of some internal reform of some sort -- it's just the corner Microsoft painted themselves in. Of course they have to play the "Microsoft loves Linux" PR game, too: a whole generation of open source developers grew in a climate of mistrust about Microsoft, and it just so happens that the software written by this generation of open source developers powers much of the cloud space, of which Microsoft would reaaally want a slice. A long time ago, Microsoft also sold software for the Macintosh. Then it stopped. Then it started selling OS X software again. They aren't dumb, and they certainly don't lack good engineers -- Microsoft can compete on technical merit when it needs to. Just like you, I don't generally care to support a large company, and while I do earn about half my yearly income writing or support Linux software, I don't really have a stake in it (honestly, I'd much rather write or support QNX software but that ship has sailed...). I'm not... OK, I'm no longer a Linux fanboy, which I definitely was twenty years ago but we all did a lot of stupid things when we were young. This isn't about "loving" or "hating" Microsoft, it's about whether or not I want to trust them with my stuff -- and stuff like this makes me not trust them :). Edit: man, the last time I wrote so much about Microsoft I was fifteen, I think... Even later edit: also -- as far as Windows 10 is concerned, save for the ads and data collection policy, I actually like it very much. I use it on one of my machines and I'm very happy with it -- so happy, in fact, that the moment this ads nonsense stops, I'll seriously think about switching to it :). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
retpirato 7y ago
I'm more bothered by it's placement being in my start menu, than I am by what it's for or against. The PLACEMENT is what's really crossing the line.
- erikbye 7y ago
  I have been using Classic Shell for a long time. It's faster and less buggy, searching works better, and as a bonus, I don't see any ads. No longer in development but the latest version works fine. Anyone is welcome to take over: http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147 http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147 Haven't tried this fork yet: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
Phrenzy 7y ago
Because of what I do, I am on a lot of Windows 10 machines for the first time. I use chocolaty to push out all the apps needed for systems at work, or my VMs at home. When you switch browsers for the first time, Win10 will ask like a whiny little bitch, "Are you sure you want to not use Edge? It's really nice." An anti-Firefox ad on Win10 would not surprise me.
fsh 7y ago
I don't see how showing "Still using Firefox?" can be seen as anything but a targeted anti-Firefox ad. The title is completely accurate.
- Shendare 7y ago
  "Targeted" for me would imply that Windows is checking first to see whether Firefox is installed, and only showing the suggestion if so. If this is just a general suggestion that gets pushed out to all Windows computers, then it's not so much targeted as merely questionable use of platform.
  - proactivesvcs 7y ago
    I would be very surprised if it was just pushed out irrespective of telemetry. Since Windows 10 is a mass-market operating system, I'd be surprised if 1% of their users had ever heard of Firefox.
    - Marsymars 7y ago
      Since Firefox usage share on Windows is >1%, I'd be pretty surprised if most of those users are inadvertently using Firefox without every having heard of it.
  - stinky613 7y ago
    It shows up if Firefox is your default browser
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
noncoml 7y ago
Whatever it says it has no place in my paid for OS. Seeing this is the top comment here I can only assume MS PR is hard at work upvoting on HN. Unless HN crowd had a change of heart overnight about privacy, freedom and software license ownership.
- babypuncher 7y ago
  People who disagree with you aren't automatically paid shills.
  - noncoml 7y ago
    No, they are not. But your argument is a logical fallacy. The fact that people who disagree with me are not automatically “paid shill” doesn’t imply that “paid shills” aren’t there. Of course I cannot prove it, but the signs are there. How else do you explain the sudden change of heart of the HN community overnight? Who usually have very strong opinions on this topic.
    - rafiki6 7y ago
      To set the record straight, I have not ever nor do I currently work for microsoft. If you have IP tracking skills you can probably figure out where I work from these posts. As a matter of a fact, I don't like a lot of things about msft, this just isn't one of them. I dislike that msft is getting a disproportionate amount of hate about this stuff and yet Google and Apple don't seem to get the same level of flack. People seem to get more upset at them related to privacy. I wanted to offer a different perspective that acknowledges that this is the state of things across the board, and this one thing is less harmful than it's being made out to be. Microsoft embraced open source when it was friendly to their business and shunned it when it was not. They may very well shun it again, but with the proliferation of cloud providers and the dominance of AWS in the space, they just don't have a real choice. Windows simply isn't enjoying the dominance it once had in the server space. What I am trying to say is that this incident isn't evidence of anything except that Microsoft is like every other company that will use any advantage it has to push its product. Google and Apple do it too. Let's put our energy in things that pressure companies to behave properly like lobbying governments to step up their anti-trust and privacy enforcement.
chairmanwow1 7y ago
When I actually saw the ad, I realized it was not actually that inflammatory AND I had been click-baited onto a page to look at an ad surrounded by inane copy and wait for it...yet more ads.
overgard 7y ago
I think what we were expecting was that the operating system shouldn't be making advertisements? Yes it's "just" a meh ad, but why are you ok with your OS advertising dumb bullshit to you? This isn't just an app, you can't just casually drop your operating system. It's inappropriate and it should be viewed as such. When Microsoft does these things, it's not just a matter of "well go with someone else". There is no-one else, a lot of times. So we're trapped, and Microsoft says: by the way, now you have to deal with advertisements in your operation system. And we're going to do one that totally tweaks our nose at the antitrust issues of the 90s just because we can. None of that is ok! It's not an overreaction to say, hey guys, knock it off.
baud147258 7y ago
I remember this for all major browsers, so it's not just firefox

srhngpr 7y ago

I agree with you. This comment should be higher up as it's more objective to this whole situation than a lot of the top comments that quickly resort to Microsoft bashing and "remembering the old Microsoft is the same Microsoft" type of comments.

deaps 7y ago

It's not an overreaction. It's literally a targeted ad showing up in your day to day work space. It's invasive. I switched to mac a long time ago, but I still have a Windows device because some things are just painful (or impossible) to use on a mac. The difference between using an application that prompts "make this default?" and a specifically targeted ad showing up on your start menu is that the user used the application that threw the prompt...That might actually be helpful. The fact is, if Microsoft wants me to switch to Edge, they need to tell me the benefits. A chart will do fine comparing it to other common options. I don't need a targeted ad that proves they know and keep track of what browser I'm actually using. That's literally ridiculous.

whywhywhywhy 7y ago
Apple does the same sort of thing these days, Music.app on my phone keeps showing me a full screen ad for Apple Music around a month, dismissed it about 5 times now.
- nydel 7y ago
  it's everywhere outside of overtly freedom-concerned software. the idiots are winning.
  - neuronic 7y ago
    Like the (now past) Amazon integration in Ubuntu?
    - a1369209993 7y ago
      > freedom-concerned software. Thank you for giving a example of why we can't use the term "free software" any more. Also fuck Ubuntu.
      - thefunnyman 7y ago
        It seems a bit absurd that this is still a reason to say 'fuck ubuntu' when they listened to user feedback and reversed that feature. I can't think of any other similar missteps in recent years.
        a1369209993 7y ago
        > I can't think of any other similar missteps in recent years. I stopped using Ubuntu a while ago due to a large number of individually minor "missteps", so I don't have any equally blatant/memorable (or particularly recent) examples, but there were enough of them to be a constant hazard of updating anything. (For similarly large, there's systemd and wayland, but neither those are specific to Ubuntu.) Also, someone (for analogy) dumping toxic waste into a drinking water supply, and then listening to feedback and ceasing to dump toxic waste into the water supply, still seems like a damn good reason to say "fuck those guys in particular" to me, and that's what shipping malware in a software update amounts to.

black_puppydog 7y ago

This is Microsoft using their desktop operating system market share to drive their web browser market share. That's pretty much what they got sued for before. Given, their market position in desktop might be a different one now than back then. But it's still quite close to what antitrust laws were written against. Also saying "oh all corps do stuff like that calm down" is a really bad defense IMO.

zeusk 7y ago
Try using any Google property without chrome, or try using any iOS device without safari. This is pretty harmless in my opinion.
- codewithcheese 7y ago
  Your reasoning does not make it harmless, it makes Microsoft the same as Google and Apple.
  - inviromentalist 7y ago
    People defend the walled garden of Apple. But I think it's just post purchase rationalization.
    - Razengan 7y ago
      People enter the walled garden expecting a walled garden and desiring a walled garden. Microsoft’s behavior is like taking a stroll in a forest or open field and suddenly having walls erected around you and cameras pointed at you.
  - zeusk 7y ago
    harmful is google purposefully blocking their properties to mobile edge when everything worked with changed U/A string. Concerning at best, since they're using first party grounds for advertising but that does not make it harmful.
- 7y ago

commoner 7y ago

Many people did not appreciate Microsoft's acquisition of GitHub, and Azure wouldn't be very successful if it didn't support Linux (the predominant server operating system). It is completely reasonable to be skeptical of Microsoft's actions here, as they have a history of anticompetitive behavior in the web browser market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu

thefunnyman 7y ago
Most people, myself included, were skeptical when Microsoft bought GitHub and assumed it would change for the worse. In this case I'm happy to have been proven wrong and I've seen nothing but improvements to GitHub following it's acquisition. They pretty much immediately made private repos free if you have less than four contributors and have allowed GitHub to continue to deliver awesome features like GitHub actions for free to open source repos.
- commoner 7y ago
  While that was an improvement from before, it pales in comparison to GitLab.com's free private repos with no contributor restrictions. Additionally, GitLab.com offers free continuous integration/delivery for both open source and proprietary repos. GitLab is also source-available. https://about.gitlab.com/pricing https://about.gitlab.com/pricing https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/program https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/program GitHub is doing the bare minimum to compete while relying on network effects from its existing user base - better than nothing, but not enough to justify showering Microsoft with praise.

selectodude 7y ago

>Does anyone who uses Firefox realize for a long while they were primarily funded by having Google pay them to be the default search engine? They still are.

mnm1 7y ago

It's probably not just the ads, but the fact that they have complete, unlimited access to one's machine to install apps and copy/modify data as they see fit that makes them worse than the MS of the 90's. To me, it's incredible anyone who cares at all about security would even consider Windows at this point, let alone large companies with company secrets and other private information. MS is likely mining through any file or data on any machine it wants. This invasion of privacy in many ways eclipses FB and Google, which provide services that can be avoided. This data collection is unavoidable on Windows. We don't even know the extent of the data collection, let alone what they're doing with it and they are doing it something like 90% of the installed PC user base or whatever their market share is these days. That's an incredible surveillance machine, likely the largest in the world. It's amazing to me people who work in tech can defend such practices and claim they are not a big deal. A lot of people just don't care at all about security, judging by their use of Windows.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

> This is about the same as a browser asking you to make it default when you open it. No, it's one thing (OS) pushing another (browser). The equivalent would be opening chrome and it popping up a message, "Still using Windows? Click here to upgrade to ChromeOS!"

Amezarak 7y ago
I think it's more like Google harassing you to install Chrome when using any Google property, or, even worse, getting it packaged into every installer under the sun, so if you forgot to uncheck the "install Google Chrome" box while installing a new version of Java, congratulations, you now have Google Chrome. I'm not defending this behavior, but unfortunately the norm has been set.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  Yes, I agree that it is exactly like that: completely unacceptable, and it should be grounds for antitrust action.

alxlaz 7y ago

So I guess you were talking about my post? Since I'm one of the "this is why I don't believe in the new Microsoft or that Microsoft has changed" people you mention :-). First of all, this isn't just about this ad. As I said in my comment, it's "this -- and every other screw-up in the same vein". Like the other Start Menu ads, like the dark patterns in privacy-related config settings. But okay, let's talk about this one specifically. The "old Microsoft" (specifically, to put it in context: the one with the Halloween Documents [0]) that I don't trust (I want to emphasize this part for reasons that I'll explain in a minute) is a company that: 1. Specifically used its dominating position in the operating systems industry to push its browser and eliminate competition in that space 2. Engaged in competition partly by spreading FUD about other products (note that this is not a post-hoc exaggeration: the internal memos specifically call FUD by this name, and refer to it as an entrenched, well-known internal technique) 3. Was deliberately dismissive of competing open source software in its public statements, even though it sometimes uses it internally 4. Set out a strategy to compete against open source (note though -- I think the documents predate the term "open source"?) that went beyond merely spreading FUD, and was based on embracing, then extending existing protocols in incompatible ways. This "meh ad" is just the latest in Microsoft's constant, and extremely irritating push for Edge (e.g. see the system's behaviour when you try to change the default browser). It's the same stuff we've seen back in 1998 -- not as aggressive, seeing how Microsoft nearly got broken up when it tried something that aggressive, but it's in the same vein. And looks very much like #1 above. It's also not happening just in the browser space. For instance, until recently, Windows wouldn't shut up about the damn OneDrive thing, either. Things are different in the cloud and server space -- where SQL Server, Azure and .NET core happen -- because Microsoft isn't even close to being in a dominating position. Of course Microsoft can't elude competition there. They could ban Linux from Azure if they wanted to, but more than half of their marketshare would evaporate with it, too. But I don't see any reason to think that this is part of some internal reform of some sort -- it's just the corner Microsoft painted themselves in. Of course they have to play the "Microsoft loves Linux" PR game, too: a whole generation of open source developers grew in a climate of mistrust about Microsoft, and it just so happens that the software written by this generation of open source developers powers much of the cloud space, of which Microsoft would reaaally want a slice. A long time ago, Microsoft also sold software for the Macintosh. Then it stopped. Then it started selling OS X software again. They aren't dumb, and they certainly don't lack good engineers -- Microsoft can compete on technical merit when it needs to. Just like you, I don't generally care to support a large company, and while I do earn about half my yearly income writing or support Linux software, I don't really have a stake in it (honestly, I'd much rather write or support QNX software but that ship has sailed...). I'm not... OK, I'm no longer a Linux fanboy, which I definitely was twenty years ago but we all did a lot of stupid things when we were young. This isn't about "loving" or "hating" Microsoft, it's about whether or not I want to trust them with my stuff -- and stuff like this makes me not trust them :). Edit: man, the last time I wrote so much about Microsoft I was fifteen, I think... Even later edit: also -- as far as Windows 10 is concerned, save for the ads and data collection policy, I actually like it very much. I use it on one of my machines and I'm very happy with it -- so happy, in fact, that the moment this ads nonsense stops, I'll seriously think about switching to it :). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

retpirato 7y ago

I'm more bothered by it's placement being in my start menu, than I am by what it's for or against. The PLACEMENT is what's really crossing the line.

erikbye 7y ago
I have been using Classic Shell for a long time. It's faster and less buggy, searching works better, and as a bonus, I don't see any ads. No longer in development but the latest version works fine. Anyone is welcome to take over: http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147 http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147 Haven't tried this fork yet: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

Phrenzy 7y ago

Because of what I do, I am on a lot of Windows 10 machines for the first time. I use chocolaty to push out all the apps needed for systems at work, or my VMs at home. When you switch browsers for the first time, Win10 will ask like a whiny little bitch, "Are you sure you want to not use Edge? It's really nice." An anti-Firefox ad on Win10 would not surprise me.

fsh 7y ago

I don't see how showing "Still using Firefox?" can be seen as anything but a targeted anti-Firefox ad. The title is completely accurate.

Shendare 7y ago
"Targeted" for me would imply that Windows is checking first to see whether Firefox is installed, and only showing the suggestion if so. If this is just a general suggestion that gets pushed out to all Windows computers, then it's not so much targeted as merely questionable use of platform.
- proactivesvcs 7y ago
  I would be very surprised if it was just pushed out irrespective of telemetry. Since Windows 10 is a mass-market operating system, I'd be surprised if 1% of their users had ever heard of Firefox.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    Since Firefox usage share on Windows is >1%, I'd be pretty surprised if most of those users are inadvertently using Firefox without every having heard of it.
- stinky613 7y ago
  It shows up if Firefox is your default browser
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

noncoml 7y ago

Whatever it says it has no place in my paid for OS. Seeing this is the top comment here I can only assume MS PR is hard at work upvoting on HN. Unless HN crowd had a change of heart overnight about privacy, freedom and software license ownership.

babypuncher 7y ago
People who disagree with you aren't automatically paid shills.
- noncoml 7y ago
  No, they are not. But your argument is a logical fallacy. The fact that people who disagree with me are not automatically “paid shill” doesn’t imply that “paid shills” aren’t there. Of course I cannot prove it, but the signs are there. How else do you explain the sudden change of heart of the HN community overnight? Who usually have very strong opinions on this topic.
  - rafiki6 7y ago
    To set the record straight, I have not ever nor do I currently work for microsoft. If you have IP tracking skills you can probably figure out where I work from these posts. As a matter of a fact, I don't like a lot of things about msft, this just isn't one of them. I dislike that msft is getting a disproportionate amount of hate about this stuff and yet Google and Apple don't seem to get the same level of flack. People seem to get more upset at them related to privacy. I wanted to offer a different perspective that acknowledges that this is the state of things across the board, and this one thing is less harmful than it's being made out to be. Microsoft embraced open source when it was friendly to their business and shunned it when it was not. They may very well shun it again, but with the proliferation of cloud providers and the dominance of AWS in the space, they just don't have a real choice. Windows simply isn't enjoying the dominance it once had in the server space. What I am trying to say is that this incident isn't evidence of anything except that Microsoft is like every other company that will use any advantage it has to push its product. Google and Apple do it too. Let's put our energy in things that pressure companies to behave properly like lobbying governments to step up their anti-trust and privacy enforcement.

chairmanwow1 7y ago

When I actually saw the ad, I realized it was not actually that inflammatory AND I had been click-baited onto a page to look at an ad surrounded by inane copy and wait for it...yet more ads.

overgard 7y ago

I think what we were expecting was that the operating system shouldn't be making advertisements? Yes it's "just" a meh ad, but why are you ok with your OS advertising dumb bullshit to you? This isn't just an app, you can't just casually drop your operating system. It's inappropriate and it should be viewed as such. When Microsoft does these things, it's not just a matter of "well go with someone else". There is no-one else, a lot of times. So we're trapped, and Microsoft says: by the way, now you have to deal with advertisements in your operation system. And we're going to do one that totally tweaks our nose at the antitrust issues of the 90s just because we can. None of that is ok! It's not an overreaction to say, hey guys, knock it off.

baud147258 7y ago

I remember this for all major browsers, so it's not just firefox