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Your statement is correct. I respect Peyton, but the fact is, he doesn't have a real PHd. It makes no sense to me why you're getting voted down. This is what ge

Your statement is correct. I respect Peyton, but the fact is, he doesn't have a real PHd. It makes no sense to me why you're getting voted down. This is what get's me frustrated about people. People don't vote or support statements that are true, they only support statements that they like. I'm guessing a lot of people won't like my comment even though it's probably true...

throwaway17_17 7y ago
The statement “Simon Peyton Jones does not have a PhD, bestowed following submission and defense of a dissertation” is True. However, the qualitative statement the parent comment gives is, roughly: “Simon Peyton Jones has an honorary PhD, which is not a ‘real’ PhD, and therefore should not be referred to casually by the prefix doctor.” This statement is not True in the same sense as the first. There is an explicit qualifier for what the parent considers a ‘real PhD. It may be generally correct, hell it may be completely conventional, to not coded the title of doctor upon someone who did not defend a dissertation, but these are fundamentally conditional statements. For what it’s worth, I have seems more than 2 dozen talks by Jones and read a vast amount of his written interviews. I have never seen him refer to himself as ‘doctor.’ If fact, I can recall at least one discussion by him about why he did not do a dissertation and that he still thinks it was the right path for himself (although I can not find the reference).
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  >However, the qualitative statement the parent comment gives is, roughly: “Simon Peyton Jones has an honorary PhD, which is not a ‘real’ PhD, and therefore should not be referred to casually by the prefix doctor.” This statement is not True in the same sense as the first. No. This is just your qualitative opinion. To refer to someone as Doctor in our culture and our society means they have a MD or a PHD. It's that simple. Institutions who give out Honorary degrees usually ask the recipient to Not refer to themselves as Dr. See source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Honorary_degree https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Honorary_degree Even though my comment is true with a cited source, you will see that it could get voted down because people don't like it, thereby proving my point that people vote for what they like not for what is true.
  - buckminster 7y ago
    > Institutions who give out Honorary degrees usually ask the recipient to Not refer to themselves as Dr. See source: Emphasis mine. You admit yourself that this is not an absolute standard. Further, this request is directed towards celebrity recipients who receive their degree for PR purposes. Which is not the case with Peyton Jones.
    - crimsonalucard 7y ago
      The word "usually" is in favor to my point. The word is used because it is not a law or a rule. I admit myself it is not an absolute standard. Even someone without a PHD or an honorary degree can call himself a Dr. there are no absolute standards here. Peyton himself doesn't refer to himself as a doctor. So what does that tell you about his own view on the matter? Perhaps he was asked by the university not to call himself a Dr.
      - Twisol 7y ago
        > So what does that tell you about his own view on the matter? That he is a humble person. This jibes with all anecdata I've ever heard about his character. Occam's Razor and all that. Many people who have a Ph.D. prefer not to refer to themselves, or be referred to by others, as Dr.
        crimsonalucard 7y ago
        Sure that is valid view. It would be incredibly biased to vote me down and discount the other supporting evidence that points to the fact it also conveys the possibility that he and others don't see him as a doctor.
gmfawcett 7y ago
In such a pedantic thread, we should at least use his proper surname, Peyton Jones.
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  It's not pedantic. People are specifically asked by universities not to refer to themselves as doctors when given honorary degrees. This is entirely different from calling someone by their name. Please don't try to manipulate the situation here.
  - gmfawcett 7y ago
    Pedantic: "Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for academic knowledge and formal rules." The shoe fits exceedingly well, in my opinion.
    - crimsonalucard 7y ago
      We can agree to disagree. In my opinion I don't want to be treated by a Doctor who has an honorary MD.
      - gmfawcett 7y ago
        And nor would I. :) An amicable disagreement is a good ending.
Tomte 7y ago
> It makes no sense to me why you're getting voted down Because it comes across as mean-spirited, whether he intended to or not. You can speak "truth" without being a jerk.

throwaway17_17 7y ago

The statement “Simon Peyton Jones does not have a PhD, bestowed following submission and defense of a dissertation” is True. However, the qualitative statement the parent comment gives is, roughly: “Simon Peyton Jones has an honorary PhD, which is not a ‘real’ PhD, and therefore should not be referred to casually by the prefix doctor.” This statement is not True in the same sense as the first. There is an explicit qualifier for what the parent considers a ‘real PhD. It may be generally correct, hell it may be completely conventional, to not coded the title of doctor upon someone who did not defend a dissertation, but these are fundamentally conditional statements. For what it’s worth, I have seems more than 2 dozen talks by Jones and read a vast amount of his written interviews. I have never seen him refer to himself as ‘doctor.’ If fact, I can recall at least one discussion by him about why he did not do a dissertation and that he still thinks it was the right path for himself (although I can not find the reference).

crimsonalucard 7y ago
>However, the qualitative statement the parent comment gives is, roughly: “Simon Peyton Jones has an honorary PhD, which is not a ‘real’ PhD, and therefore should not be referred to casually by the prefix doctor.” This statement is not True in the same sense as the first. No. This is just your qualitative opinion. To refer to someone as Doctor in our culture and our society means they have a MD or a PHD. It's that simple. Institutions who give out Honorary degrees usually ask the recipient to Not refer to themselves as Dr. See source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Honorary_degree https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Honorary_degree Even though my comment is true with a cited source, you will see that it could get voted down because people don't like it, thereby proving my point that people vote for what they like not for what is true.
- buckminster 7y ago
  > Institutions who give out Honorary degrees usually ask the recipient to Not refer to themselves as Dr. See source: Emphasis mine. You admit yourself that this is not an absolute standard. Further, this request is directed towards celebrity recipients who receive their degree for PR purposes. Which is not the case with Peyton Jones.
  - crimsonalucard 7y ago
    The word "usually" is in favor to my point. The word is used because it is not a law or a rule. I admit myself it is not an absolute standard. Even someone without a PHD or an honorary degree can call himself a Dr. there are no absolute standards here. Peyton himself doesn't refer to himself as a doctor. So what does that tell you about his own view on the matter? Perhaps he was asked by the university not to call himself a Dr.
    - Twisol 7y ago
      > So what does that tell you about his own view on the matter? That he is a humble person. This jibes with all anecdata I've ever heard about his character. Occam's Razor and all that. Many people who have a Ph.D. prefer not to refer to themselves, or be referred to by others, as Dr.
      - crimsonalucard 7y ago
        Sure that is valid view. It would be incredibly biased to vote me down and discount the other supporting evidence that points to the fact it also conveys the possibility that he and others don't see him as a doctor.

gmfawcett 7y ago

In such a pedantic thread, we should at least use his proper surname, Peyton Jones.

crimsonalucard 7y ago
It's not pedantic. People are specifically asked by universities not to refer to themselves as doctors when given honorary degrees. This is entirely different from calling someone by their name. Please don't try to manipulate the situation here.
- gmfawcett 7y ago
  Pedantic: "Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for academic knowledge and formal rules." The shoe fits exceedingly well, in my opinion.
  - crimsonalucard 7y ago
    We can agree to disagree. In my opinion I don't want to be treated by a Doctor who has an honorary MD.
    - gmfawcett 7y ago
      And nor would I. :) An amicable disagreement is a good ending.

Tomte 7y ago

> It makes no sense to me why you're getting voted down Because it comes across as mean-spirited, whether he intended to or not. You can speak "truth" without being a jerk.