5 ms·

And Emacs uses a nice, simple, sane, universal configuration file format (S-expressions) while systemd uses .ini files (on Unix!), JSON, binary and no doubt som

by zeveb 7y ago

And Emacs uses a nice, simple, sane, universal configuration file format (S-expressions) while systemd uses .ini files (on Unix!), JSON, binary and no doubt something else somewhere else. Hmmm, maybe it'd be worthwhile to just make emacs PID 1.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
throwaway17_17 7y ago
I think the use of .ini files is exceptionally appropriate for systemd. The developers are at there most transparent here, it is essentially them saying “we want to be Windows, we want to be the ones who control your system, we make the decisions and you should be thankful that insightful, expert, never ever ever wrong developers like us grace you with this software.” (Obvious fake quote, is obvious) I know the sarcasm is heavy there, but the attitude of the developers of systemd seems to be honestly geared in this direction. So, Of course they use .ini files on Unix, because they want the same sort of mono monster, one true path OS that Windows has.
- kazinator 7y ago
  > we want to be Windows You mean, we want to be nice Windows, before the Registry?
- CameronNemo 7y ago
  Fwiw systemd definitely does not use ini files. It uses some weird scripting language that looks sort of like ini but has logical operators, clear statements, and the ability to assign multiple values to one key.
rauhl 7y ago
> a nice, simple, sane, universal configuration file format (S-expressions) In particular, this bit from the article sounds like hand-rolled, informally-specified canonical S-expressions[0]: > It is recommended to bring the record into ‘normalized’ form (i.e. all objects should contain their fields sorted alphabetically by their key) before storing it there, though this is not required nor enforced. It really is true that those who do not understand Lisp are doomed to reinvent it. 0: https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt
zdw 7y ago
Unsurprisingly, this has been tried: https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux...
kazinator 7y ago
> systemd uses .ini files (on Unix!) So does Linus Torvald's git version control utility.
- dsmithatx 7y ago
  I believe it is actually the TOML format which was obviously inspired by .ini files. TOML has a formal standard while ini files have no formal standard being the big difference.
  - zaarn 7y ago
    Git does not use TOML, even if it looks very similar. You can check the syntax in "man git-config", but is definitely has a few syntax differences to TOML (especially the "[section "subsection"]" part) There is no formal git-config standard other than what's deployed in git.
catalogia 7y ago
There is also GNU Shepherd, an init system which uses Guile (a scheme dialect.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guix#GNU_Shepherd_Init_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guix#GNU_Shepherd_Init_sys...

by zeveb 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

throwaway17_17 7y ago

I think the use of .ini files is exceptionally appropriate for systemd. The developers are at there most transparent here, it is essentially them saying “we want to be Windows, we want to be the ones who control your system, we make the decisions and you should be thankful that insightful, expert, never ever ever wrong developers like us grace you with this software.” (Obvious fake quote, is obvious) I know the sarcasm is heavy there, but the attitude of the developers of systemd seems to be honestly geared in this direction. So, Of course they use .ini files on Unix, because they want the same sort of mono monster, one true path OS that Windows has.

kazinator 7y ago
> we want to be Windows You mean, we want to be nice Windows, before the Registry?
CameronNemo 7y ago
Fwiw systemd definitely does not use ini files. It uses some weird scripting language that looks sort of like ini but has logical operators, clear statements, and the ability to assign multiple values to one key.

rauhl 7y ago

> a nice, simple, sane, universal configuration file format (S-expressions) In particular, this bit from the article sounds like hand-rolled, informally-specified canonical S-expressions[0]: > It is recommended to bring the record into ‘normalized’ form (i.e. all objects should contain their fields sorted alphabetically by their key) before storing it there, though this is not required nor enforced. It really is true that those who do not understand Lisp are doomed to reinvent it. 0: https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt

zdw 7y ago

Unsurprisingly, this has been tried: https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux...

kazinator 7y ago

> systemd uses .ini files (on Unix!) So does Linus Torvald's git version control utility.

dsmithatx 7y ago
I believe it is actually the TOML format which was obviously inspired by .ini files. TOML has a formal standard while ini files have no formal standard being the big difference.
- zaarn 7y ago
  Git does not use TOML, even if it looks very similar. You can check the syntax in "man git-config", but is definitely has a few syntax differences to TOML (especially the "[section "subsection"]" part) There is no formal git-config standard other than what's deployed in git.

catalogia 7y ago

There is also GNU Shepherd, an init system which uses Guile (a scheme dialect.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guix#GNU_Shepherd_Init_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guix#GNU_Shepherd_Init_sys...