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> Despite its efforts, San Francisco is facing headwinds. By October of this year, the city had counted 25 crash-induced fatalities, already higher than last ye

> Despite its efforts, San Francisco is facing headwinds. By October of this year, the city had counted 25 crash-induced fatalities, already higher than last year’s total. The most notable change in SF has been the delayed light cycle after pedestrian crosswalk comes on. There was a spike in deaths after that change and I understood why immediately - drivers were timing the light by watching the crosswalk countdown and/or the cross traffic's light cycle. Your light used to turn green just as the other direction's light turned red. When they suddenly changed all the light I noticed a fair number of cars jolt forward then stop, confused, until their light actually changes 4 seconds later. I'm not sure how this change results in deaths directly, but it definitely added to road rage out there. When the light does change and a car is turning, the expectations are different now. Pedestrians are in the middle of the street already and are less wary of cars jumping out because before there was a moment when everyone would figure out the situation before moving (ideally). Now people are mid-crosswalk and have no idea when the cars' light is going to change which leaves pedestrians more vulnerable. Another issue I imagine is cars that are making a legal right turn on a red light. The driver looks to see if they can go and have their head turned the exact opposite direction of the crosswalk and wouldn't be aware of when the crosswalk symbol changes. Meanwhile, pedestrians aren't expecting a car to suddenly turn into them 2 seconds after they step into the crosswalk and it is a recipe for disaster. I don't see how they can fix that now without banning all turns on red. There is also a particularly ugly intersection at Laguna and Geary where they instituted a delayed green when crossing over Geary. People were getting run over in the crosswalks because there is an extra long crosswalk on both sides and cars were turning from both directions with other cars getting backed up and unable to go around them. Because there isn't room for dedicated turn lanes, they have one side go then the other side go, but people lose their shit when they see the southbound cars coming at them for 15 seconds while their light is still red because all prior experience at other lights indicates they should also have a green light when other cars are going... I have seen multiple cars simply drive through that red light and one time 3 cars in a row just decided to go despite the red. They finally put up a sign that says "delayed green" which seems to be helping, but it is an imperfect solution and another counter-intuitive solution.

Joe-Z 7y ago
Just goes to show how many motorists drive around with a „the road is mine“-attitude. If that doesn‘t change and people have no actual interest in the well-being of their fellow humans (which exceeds their interest to be home 10 seconds earlier) you can tout 0-fatality plans all you want, they will never pan out.
chrisseaton 7y ago
I don’t understand when I visit SF and as a pedestrian when my light is go there still seem to be cars allowed to cross my path. Why don’t they stop cars entirely for pedestrians to cross? And why don’t the lights in SF allow you to cross diagonally?
- ramshorns 7y ago
  I'm curious where you live and what the signals are like there, because what you describe is how almost all the traffic signals I see work. When the light is green on the N-S street, pedestrians have the right of way to cross N and S (on the E and W sides of the intersection). Cars going straight N and S also have the right of way, and cars can turn left or right from the N-S street after they yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There are a few intersections in Ontario with a dedicated phase for crossing in any direction, including diagonally, but they're rare. Anyway, I bet the different ways traffic signals work inform people's perception of traffic and streets in different places.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > I'm curious where you live and what the signals are like there In the UK. Where I am if there is a light for a pedestrian to cross that guarantees no car will be trying to cross your path. I feel like you shouldn’t show a pedestrian a light if cars are still allowed to cross their path! Seems dangerous and misleading and it scares me every time. In most cases what happens here is that the whole intersection gets stopped for pedestrians periodically, so you can cross diagonally as well. Why isn’t that popular in North America? Trying to interleave cars and pedestrians and let cars edge towards you menacingly as they try to turn across your path is absolute madness to me.

Joe-Z 7y ago

Just goes to show how many motorists drive around with a „the road is mine“-attitude. If that doesn‘t change and people have no actual interest in the well-being of their fellow humans (which exceeds their interest to be home 10 seconds earlier) you can tout 0-fatality plans all you want, they will never pan out.

chrisseaton 7y ago

I don’t understand when I visit SF and as a pedestrian when my light is go there still seem to be cars allowed to cross my path. Why don’t they stop cars entirely for pedestrians to cross? And why don’t the lights in SF allow you to cross diagonally?

ramshorns 7y ago
I'm curious where you live and what the signals are like there, because what you describe is how almost all the traffic signals I see work. When the light is green on the N-S street, pedestrians have the right of way to cross N and S (on the E and W sides of the intersection). Cars going straight N and S also have the right of way, and cars can turn left or right from the N-S street after they yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There are a few intersections in Ontario with a dedicated phase for crossing in any direction, including diagonally, but they're rare. Anyway, I bet the different ways traffic signals work inform people's perception of traffic and streets in different places.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > I'm curious where you live and what the signals are like there In the UK. Where I am if there is a light for a pedestrian to cross that guarantees no car will be trying to cross your path. I feel like you shouldn’t show a pedestrian a light if cars are still allowed to cross their path! Seems dangerous and misleading and it scares me every time. In most cases what happens here is that the whole intersection gets stopped for pedestrians periodically, so you can cross diagonally as well. Why isn’t that popular in North America? Trying to interleave cars and pedestrians and let cars edge towards you menacingly as they try to turn across your path is absolute madness to me.