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> I firmly believe that DSP could emulate any guitar amp. If it's real, then it can be measured, and if it can be measured, then it can be simulated. This is a

by nullc 7y ago

> I firmly believe that DSP could emulate any guitar amp. If it's real, then it can be measured, and if it can be measured, then it can be simulated. This is absolutely true, but the possibility of it doesn't tell you anything about someone having been successful at it. One way to think about is that the market for the product can be split into three populations: Those who will buy even if the simulation is poor (they can't tell, don't care, or buy based on price or other wizbang features), those who won't buy no matter how good the simulation is (they don't care about the cost/weight/power, are happy with the classic stuff, ones snub simulations for social reasons, ones who prefer products without long boot times or with physical knobs, or just can't tell and are going to be conservative), and those who would buy but only if it's good. I think in many cases this last group is much smaller than the other two. As a result it doesn't necessarily make commercial sense to make the simulation especially good. Even in the case of linear effects (e.g. typically reverbs) where it's easy to measure them and determine scientifically that any difference would be (nearly-)inaudible there are many implementations that don't even bother to try being particularly faithful. For non-linear effects like guitar amplifiers it's much more difficult to objectively characterize their performance. [I own no tube amps or other similar things, but I understand why people do.]

analog31 7y ago
Indeed, and an additional issue is that success is impossible to measure. Objective testing (double blind or whatever) is prohibitive, and there's a tradition of judging gear based on subjective opinion, that will be hard to overcome. We could already be past the stage where the simulations are good enough, and never know it. Commercial success might not be driving the development of these products. Anybody who's that good with DSP could make more money outside of the musical instrument business. Someone is doing this because it's their passion.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  There are plenty of folks who research this problem at the manufacturers as well as in academia. Stanford, McGill, NYU, UMiami, Aalto University, are a few places where you can find great researchers. The leading journals are the jAES and DAFX journal, and in industry I know of Fender, Native Instruments, Waves, IZotope, among others that were hiring PhDs for this kind of role in the last year. Decent money, not SV money however, but it's more honest work than going to study audio projects for DARPA contractors.
bsder 7y ago
> those who would buy but only if it's good. > > I think in many cases this last group is much smaller than the other two. Maybe, but the professionals have spoken and deemed the modeling amps "good enough". Lots of them now regularly tour with a modeling amp so they don't have to carry a half-ton of equipment and risk their precious vintage amp in the hands of stage and transport monkeys. And, I might concede that tube amps sound better than solid state ... if you have one of the "stage queens". Marshall's and Mesa Boogie's, for example, are notorious for having a few exemplars in a line that sound great, but the vast majority of them are just kind of "meh". The modeling amps allow you to always have the "stage queen".

by nullc 7y ago

analog31 7y ago

Indeed, and an additional issue is that success is impossible to measure. Objective testing (double blind or whatever) is prohibitive, and there's a tradition of judging gear based on subjective opinion, that will be hard to overcome. We could already be past the stage where the simulations are good enough, and never know it. Commercial success might not be driving the development of these products. Anybody who's that good with DSP could make more money outside of the musical instrument business. Someone is doing this because it's their passion.

unlinked_dll 7y ago
There are plenty of folks who research this problem at the manufacturers as well as in academia. Stanford, McGill, NYU, UMiami, Aalto University, are a few places where you can find great researchers. The leading journals are the jAES and DAFX journal, and in industry I know of Fender, Native Instruments, Waves, IZotope, among others that were hiring PhDs for this kind of role in the last year. Decent money, not SV money however, but it's more honest work than going to study audio projects for DARPA contractors.

bsder 7y ago

> those who would buy but only if it's good. > > I think in many cases this last group is much smaller than the other two. Maybe, but the professionals have spoken and deemed the modeling amps "good enough". Lots of them now regularly tour with a modeling amp so they don't have to carry a half-ton of equipment and risk their precious vintage amp in the hands of stage and transport monkeys. And, I might concede that tube amps sound better than solid state ... if you have one of the "stage queens". Marshall's and Mesa Boogie's, for example, are notorious for having a few exemplars in a line that sound great, but the vast majority of them are just kind of "meh". The modeling amps allow you to always have the "stage queen".