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I don't get the mindset these days. Why is everyone looking for investors? Seems to me like you are already planning to sell that thing. Don't start it then, b

I don't get the mindset these days. Why is everyone looking for investors? Seems to me like you are already planning to sell that thing. Don't start it then, because it will be a shitty product, built to cash in some VC money and get out of it. Why do so little people build something fundamental from the ground up? Why not make it a side project and watch it grow?

BasDirks 7y ago
We want to build a product. We will build it, investors or not. We are not in it for the cash. We are in it for the positive impact.
- smt88 7y ago
  > We are not in it for the cash. We are in it for the positive impact. This is the opposite of what investors want -- one of the reasons I'm a serial bootstrapper. Your attitude will either repel VCs, or they'll invest anyway and force you to make short-term decisions to maximize revenue. I don't think the VC route would be easy for you, nor would it make you happy. Good for you! Look for info on how to bootstrap instead.
  - BasDirks 7y ago
    Thanks, I appreciate your (and other's) honesty.
- turingbike 7y ago
  Given this perspective, I would postpone investment as long as possible then.
- sheeshkebab 7y ago
  Why bother with investors then? If product has positive and useful impact, you’ll get money from clients. Investors are a painful crowd to deal with, very sneaky leagalease and make it easy to lose your product/company, esp if it gets any traction.
  - BasDirks 7y ago
    Could you elaborate on the painful crowd part?
    - edoceo 7y ago
      When it just you and clients paying there are two parties in close alignment. The investor third party doesn't want what you or your clients want. You want to build a good product that people like and use. Clients want a good product. Investors want to increase capital. So, while you and clients walk a path, together. The investor is there for a different reason. And that reason can create uncomfortable situations. You and the clients can solve problems together. How does the investor solve their issue? Where does their increase in capital come from? Your time and your clients money.
  - muzani 7y ago
    Bad investors generally get identified fast in a good startup community, and word spreads. The good investors realize that it's easier to land good deals by being nice, e.g. http://paulgraham.com/ronco.html http://paulgraham.com/ronco.html Generally the idea is that investors accelerate growth. In most businesses, you don't even want investors. But startups are high capital and exponential profitability. Exponential means it's very slow and doesn't cover living costs for a while. If you want half a million dollars, the fastest way to do it is to open a restaurant, do dropshipping, maybe even consulting. Many bootstrappers do so. There's a hidden cost - it sucks away all your focus. Investors are a hack around this. You go to an investor because you don't want to spend a year consulting, and you want to take risks that don't cost you a couple years savings. The investor goes to you because you're a better deal than crypto or S&P 500.
onion2k 7y ago
In the case of the parent, they want to enter a fairly mature market with some big encumbent players (Browserstack, AWS Device Lab, Rainforest..). You certainly could bootstrap a competing product but it would be immensely hard to reach enough of the market to get enough revenue to be self-sustaining. Investment makes it easier, especially if you can find an investor who brings more than money eg knowledge of saas marketing or connections to developer tools evangelists. EDIT: To clarify the point about "investment making it easier", it makes marketing easier because you can buy adverts, pay devrel people, etc. It has almost no impact on how difficult the technical work is, and it actually makes the business side harder.

BasDirks 7y ago

We want to build a product. We will build it, investors or not. We are not in it for the cash. We are in it for the positive impact.

smt88 7y ago
> We are not in it for the cash. We are in it for the positive impact. This is the opposite of what investors want -- one of the reasons I'm a serial bootstrapper. Your attitude will either repel VCs, or they'll invest anyway and force you to make short-term decisions to maximize revenue. I don't think the VC route would be easy for you, nor would it make you happy. Good for you! Look for info on how to bootstrap instead.
- BasDirks 7y ago
  Thanks, I appreciate your (and other's) honesty.
turingbike 7y ago
Given this perspective, I would postpone investment as long as possible then.
sheeshkebab 7y ago
Why bother with investors then? If product has positive and useful impact, you’ll get money from clients. Investors are a painful crowd to deal with, very sneaky leagalease and make it easy to lose your product/company, esp if it gets any traction.
- BasDirks 7y ago
  Could you elaborate on the painful crowd part?
  - edoceo 7y ago
    When it just you and clients paying there are two parties in close alignment. The investor third party doesn't want what you or your clients want. You want to build a good product that people like and use. Clients want a good product. Investors want to increase capital. So, while you and clients walk a path, together. The investor is there for a different reason. And that reason can create uncomfortable situations. You and the clients can solve problems together. How does the investor solve their issue? Where does their increase in capital come from? Your time and your clients money.
- muzani 7y ago
  Bad investors generally get identified fast in a good startup community, and word spreads. The good investors realize that it's easier to land good deals by being nice, e.g. http://paulgraham.com/ronco.html http://paulgraham.com/ronco.html Generally the idea is that investors accelerate growth. In most businesses, you don't even want investors. But startups are high capital and exponential profitability. Exponential means it's very slow and doesn't cover living costs for a while. If you want half a million dollars, the fastest way to do it is to open a restaurant, do dropshipping, maybe even consulting. Many bootstrappers do so. There's a hidden cost - it sucks away all your focus. Investors are a hack around this. You go to an investor because you don't want to spend a year consulting, and you want to take risks that don't cost you a couple years savings. The investor goes to you because you're a better deal than crypto or S&P 500.

onion2k 7y ago

In the case of the parent, they want to enter a fairly mature market with some big encumbent players (Browserstack, AWS Device Lab, Rainforest..). You certainly could bootstrap a competing product but it would be immensely hard to reach enough of the market to get enough revenue to be self-sustaining. Investment makes it easier, especially if you can find an investor who brings more than money eg knowledge of saas marketing or connections to developer tools evangelists. EDIT: To clarify the point about "investment making it easier", it makes marketing easier because you can buy adverts, pay devrel people, etc. It has almost no impact on how difficult the technical work is, and it actually makes the business side harder.