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ABN Amro (and I think many others as well) send you an e-identifier device and allows you to make online iDeal payments with those devices.

Freak_NL 7y ago
Well yes, all but one Dutch bank offer valid and secure alternatives, including ABN Amro. ABN also keeps nudging you about using their app instead at every turn (I'm a customer). Although our own government really takes the cake in terms of 'gently nudging' people to use their app for authentication: https://twitter.com/jdhoek/status/1214969536333651968 https://twitter.com/jdhoek/status/1214969536333651968 (in Dutch, but with screenshots illustrating the 'nudging')
- huseyinkeles 7y ago
  There's an option on the first screenshot ("ik heb geen smartphone") I don't know what would happen when you click that link (already have my digid on ios set up many years ago) but seems like the government have thought about that.
  - Freak_NL 7y ago
    Of course there is an option not to use a smartphone (for now, and it will not be available if you want to access your medical records after 2020). The problem lies in the presentation. The styling of the “no smartphone” link is meant to convey that you are doing something undesirable, unsafe, obsolete, weird. That's behavioural nudging. This is fine when the upgrade path is clear and available to all (e.g., “Don't use Internet Explorer, get automatically updating Chrome, Edge, or Firefox”), but it is not fine if the only upgrade path is buying a smartphone and going into an agreement with (foreign) Apple or Google (for the required use of their respective app-stores). The government should simply not be mandating citizens to own a smartphone just because they can't be arsed to embrace authentication solutions that work on any modern computer (e.g., WebAuthn, or accelerated roll-out of NFC-chip ID-passes and a way to use these with an NFC-reader on any modern OS).

Freak_NL 7y ago

Well yes, all but one Dutch bank offer valid and secure alternatives, including ABN Amro. ABN also keeps nudging you about using their app instead at every turn (I'm a customer). Although our own government really takes the cake in terms of 'gently nudging' people to use their app for authentication: https://twitter.com/jdhoek/status/1214969536333651968 https://twitter.com/jdhoek/status/1214969536333651968 (in Dutch, but with screenshots illustrating the 'nudging')

huseyinkeles 7y ago
There's an option on the first screenshot ("ik heb geen smartphone") I don't know what would happen when you click that link (already have my digid on ios set up many years ago) but seems like the government have thought about that.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  Of course there is an option not to use a smartphone (for now, and it will not be available if you want to access your medical records after 2020). The problem lies in the presentation. The styling of the “no smartphone” link is meant to convey that you are doing something undesirable, unsafe, obsolete, weird. That's behavioural nudging. This is fine when the upgrade path is clear and available to all (e.g., “Don't use Internet Explorer, get automatically updating Chrome, Edge, or Firefox”), but it is not fine if the only upgrade path is buying a smartphone and going into an agreement with (foreign) Apple or Google (for the required use of their respective app-stores). The government should simply not be mandating citizens to own a smartphone just because they can't be arsed to embrace authentication solutions that work on any modern computer (e.g., WebAuthn, or accelerated roll-out of NFC-chip ID-passes and a way to use these with an NFC-reader on any modern OS).