3 ms·

There are also the Pinephone and perhaps the Fairphone, for varying degrees of openness. Maybe a few others even? Neither of these are completely in the open b

There are also the Pinephone and perhaps the Fairphone, for varying degrees of openness. Maybe a few others even? Neither of these are completely in the open but all three are probably good enough for making an enthusiast operating system run. They are all variations of relatively well known, sometimes even documented, hardware, with lots of necessary peripherals with non-free firmware blobs. Some make efforts to only communicate with these non-free peripherals over standardized protcols, which is the "good enough" part. For community oriented mobile operating systems, 2020 is probably going to be the best year yet. Price is also a factor. Many more people will tinker with a $200 phone than a $800 one. It's probably better to cut corners with your first model in order to hit a price point that gets enthusiasts on board. Raspberry Pi did that and have gotten incrementally more open with time.

teddyh 7y ago
For me, the first one to recieve RYF certification gets my support. As far as I know, all (or at least many) of them claim to be aiming for it, but none have gotten it yet.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  I'm not aware of any that claims to aim for it other than the Librem 5, which already got a "tentative recommendation" and is on track to be certified when released: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-on-the-free-software-foundations-ethical-tech-gift-giving-guide/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-on-the-free-software-foundati...
stamps 7y ago
I have a PinePhone and I've been using as a daily driver. It's pretty rough right now, but all the features are generally there. Within another six months I can see postmarketOS or UBtouch being feature complete. It's fun to install something like XFCE and have a full blow desktop environment. For $150, replaceable battery, SD card slot, privacy dip switches, and open source the value is more than there.
- kop316 7y ago
  Which OS are you using for this? I found that Ubuntu Touch was the most usable, but it doesn't seem to have a lot of modem features yet. But PostmarketOS with Plasma Mobile was unusable.
ta999999171 7y ago
> It's probably better to cut corners with your first model in order to hit a price point that gets enthusiasts on board. Disagree. Viral is more important for a new product like this. Which means beating naysayers over the head with things working undeniably well. See: Tesla Model S, Surface tablets made by MS themselves, Google's Nexus line of phones.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  >See: Tesla Model S, Surface tablets made by MS themselves, Google's Nexus line of phones. All bad things to compare to. In all of your examples, these lines were all established long after the companies entered the market. This is a device trying to create a new ecosystem from a company that hasn't produced a phone before for an ecosystem that basically doesn't exist yet. Right now it should be seen as a prototype (and it is). But whereas Google, Tesla, and Microsoft have large numbers of engineers these projects rely quite a bit on community support. Imagine if Tesla launched the Roadster but couldn't service it themselves, instead relying on independent garages to figure out the best ways to work out servicing and bugfixes? For these projects it's better to keep the specs modest (less thermal issues/faults), the price affordable (more developers can afford to purchase one), and the perception of support good (so people aren't on the fence because the manufacturer calls it quits or goes out of business a year later). It's especially important to keep the price low enough that the first models could be seen as hobbyist/secondary phones because making a phone ecosystem is really friggin hard. Viral works when you're trying to sell a videogame, not when you're trying to create an ecosystem from basically scratch (or even just carve out a niche). No matter how Librem tries to market itself, it's a niche product with limited appeal especially regarding their price point. In this sense, too much attention from the wrong kind of consumer at this time will be their undoing.
- ako 7y ago
  The approach outlined by "crossing the chasm" seems applicable here: they're still catering towards pioneers and enthousiasts. Take shortcuts that are acceptable for these people.

teddyh 7y ago

For me, the first one to recieve RYF certification gets my support. As far as I know, all (or at least many) of them claim to be aiming for it, but none have gotten it yet.

seba_dos1 7y ago
I'm not aware of any that claims to aim for it other than the Librem 5, which already got a "tentative recommendation" and is on track to be certified when released: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-on-the-free-software-foundations-ethical-tech-gift-giving-guide/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-on-the-free-software-foundati...

stamps 7y ago

I have a PinePhone and I've been using as a daily driver. It's pretty rough right now, but all the features are generally there. Within another six months I can see postmarketOS or UBtouch being feature complete. It's fun to install something like XFCE and have a full blow desktop environment. For $150, replaceable battery, SD card slot, privacy dip switches, and open source the value is more than there.

kop316 7y ago
Which OS are you using for this? I found that Ubuntu Touch was the most usable, but it doesn't seem to have a lot of modem features yet. But PostmarketOS with Plasma Mobile was unusable.

ta999999171 7y ago

> It's probably better to cut corners with your first model in order to hit a price point that gets enthusiasts on board. Disagree. Viral is more important for a new product like this. Which means beating naysayers over the head with things working undeniably well. See: Tesla Model S, Surface tablets made by MS themselves, Google's Nexus line of phones.

joecool1029 7y ago
>See: Tesla Model S, Surface tablets made by MS themselves, Google's Nexus line of phones. All bad things to compare to. In all of your examples, these lines were all established long after the companies entered the market. This is a device trying to create a new ecosystem from a company that hasn't produced a phone before for an ecosystem that basically doesn't exist yet. Right now it should be seen as a prototype (and it is). But whereas Google, Tesla, and Microsoft have large numbers of engineers these projects rely quite a bit on community support. Imagine if Tesla launched the Roadster but couldn't service it themselves, instead relying on independent garages to figure out the best ways to work out servicing and bugfixes? For these projects it's better to keep the specs modest (less thermal issues/faults), the price affordable (more developers can afford to purchase one), and the perception of support good (so people aren't on the fence because the manufacturer calls it quits or goes out of business a year later). It's especially important to keep the price low enough that the first models could be seen as hobbyist/secondary phones because making a phone ecosystem is really friggin hard. Viral works when you're trying to sell a videogame, not when you're trying to create an ecosystem from basically scratch (or even just carve out a niche). No matter how Librem tries to market itself, it's a niche product with limited appeal especially regarding their price point. In this sense, too much attention from the wrong kind of consumer at this time will be their undoing.
ako 7y ago
The approach outlined by "crossing the chasm" seems applicable here: they're still catering towards pioneers and enthousiasts. Take shortcuts that are acceptable for these people.