4 ms·

First off: I have lived & worked in Munich and done exactly what you describe (now live in the countryside working for a remote company) but it is still only a

by gyulai 7y ago

First off: I have lived & worked in Munich and done exactly what you describe (now live in the countryside working for a remote company) but it is still only a minority of people who [can] do that. It is certainly not the case that everybody is doing it. The ecosystem is alive and well. In my various data sources tracking job advertising, Munich has been and continues to be where almost all of the interesting jobs are based in Bavaria, and I'm not seeing falling real estate prices at all. > Munich is the embodiment of the Bay Area in Germany I'd argue that in many ways it is worse than the Bay Area in the sense that the pay-differential, though in existence, is not nearly as pronounced. Stack Overflow keeps pestering me with emails about jobs that it has classified as "high pay jobs" for Munich. The salary beneath those job ads is usually something like €80k/year before taxes (which are extremely high in Germany). This must seem like a steal to a company like Apple. And this is in a city that has one of the best technical universities on the planet, an extremely vibrant engineering scene, and offers a better quality of life than the Bay Area at lower prices to any senior Apple executive who might want/need to move there from the Bay Area. -- My initial statement holds in that this is a "special opportunity" for Apple, that must be worth capturing for them.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
How is €80k an extremely high salary in Germany when a nice apartment in Munich is closing on €800k? Fells like a place with Bay Area prices but without the pay.
- gyulai 7y ago
  I'm saying TAXES are extremely high. Getting paid €80k/yr before taxes in Munich is a bad joke, but is unfortunately where the market is. Many people are living that bad joke. -- Stop disagreeing with me, please, when there really is no disagreement here.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sounds like I was disagreeing with you. May I ask how did you get a remote position in Germany?
    - gyulai 7y ago
      By working for a remote-only company that's based out of the U.S. but allows people to live anywhere they want globally. Whenever I get contacted by a German-based headhunter working for a German company, I tell them that I'm perfectly willing to talk, but only if it's going to be a remote position and that they (the headhunters) need to do more to educate their clients on the benefits of remote. -- But I might as well be talking to a wall when I do that. It's just not happening. I've found that German-based companies are perfectly willing to pay 2x - 3x for an onsite freelancer than they would pay for an onsite employee, but they just don't do remote. Since U.S.-based remote-only companies don't pay nearly as well as U.S.-based companies doing onsite - in my experience[!] -, this means that I could actually be earning more by doing onsite freelancing for German companies than doing remote for U.S. companies, but if you factor in the time & money for commuting and the increased cost of living from spending a lot of time in the cities where German companies offering interesting opportunities tend to be based, my disposable income/rate of savings, purchasing power, and quality of life are actually all better by doing remote.
      - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
        That matches my experience with recruiters in Austria exactly where if you ask about being allowed to work remotely, most will give you a look like you just insulted their mothers. The thing about recruiters you gotta keep in mind is, they're not your friends and they're not here to help you land your dream job. You're just a meal ticket to them and they just want to find some sucker to quickly fill the position as they're in competition with the other recruiters so whoever gets the position filled first gets paid, the others are left hanging. If you start making demands that the employers don't want to hear like remote work, they'll realize you're not a sucker and they won't get their money with you so they'll drop you as a candidate all together even if you would be a great fit for the position. My question to you was how to you proceed to find good remote jobs? Linkedin? HN? Any advice is appreciated. My email is in my profile if you want to go private.
- pkos98 7y ago
  According to the UBS Real Estate Bubble Index 2019 [0], Munich is the city with the highest property bubble risk...So your perception of "Fells like a place with Bay Area prices but without the pay" holds some truth. [0]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-investment-office/life-goals/real-estate/2019/global-real-estate-bubble-index-2019.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-invest...

by gyulai 7y ago

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

How is €80k an extremely high salary in Germany when a nice apartment in Munich is closing on €800k? Fells like a place with Bay Area prices but without the pay.

gyulai 7y ago
I'm saying TAXES are extremely high. Getting paid €80k/yr before taxes in Munich is a bad joke, but is unfortunately where the market is. Many people are living that bad joke. -- Stop disagreeing with me, please, when there really is no disagreement here.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sounds like I was disagreeing with you. May I ask how did you get a remote position in Germany?
  - gyulai 7y ago
    By working for a remote-only company that's based out of the U.S. but allows people to live anywhere they want globally. Whenever I get contacted by a German-based headhunter working for a German company, I tell them that I'm perfectly willing to talk, but only if it's going to be a remote position and that they (the headhunters) need to do more to educate their clients on the benefits of remote. -- But I might as well be talking to a wall when I do that. It's just not happening. I've found that German-based companies are perfectly willing to pay 2x - 3x for an onsite freelancer than they would pay for an onsite employee, but they just don't do remote. Since U.S.-based remote-only companies don't pay nearly as well as U.S.-based companies doing onsite - in my experience[!] -, this means that I could actually be earning more by doing onsite freelancing for German companies than doing remote for U.S. companies, but if you factor in the time & money for commuting and the increased cost of living from spending a lot of time in the cities where German companies offering interesting opportunities tend to be based, my disposable income/rate of savings, purchasing power, and quality of life are actually all better by doing remote.
    - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
      That matches my experience with recruiters in Austria exactly where if you ask about being allowed to work remotely, most will give you a look like you just insulted their mothers. The thing about recruiters you gotta keep in mind is, they're not your friends and they're not here to help you land your dream job. You're just a meal ticket to them and they just want to find some sucker to quickly fill the position as they're in competition with the other recruiters so whoever gets the position filled first gets paid, the others are left hanging. If you start making demands that the employers don't want to hear like remote work, they'll realize you're not a sucker and they won't get their money with you so they'll drop you as a candidate all together even if you would be a great fit for the position. My question to you was how to you proceed to find good remote jobs? Linkedin? HN? Any advice is appreciated. My email is in my profile if you want to go private.
pkos98 7y ago
According to the UBS Real Estate Bubble Index 2019 [0], Munich is the city with the highest property bubble risk...So your perception of "Fells like a place with Bay Area prices but without the pay" holds some truth. [0]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-investment-office/life-goals/real-estate/2019/global-real-estate-bubble-index-2019.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth-management/chief-invest...