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The excess value you create but do not claim is not returned to the universe for fair distribution - rather, it is captured by ruthless jackasses that didn't do

The excess value you create but do not claim is not returned to the universe for fair distribution - rather, it is captured by ruthless jackasses that didn't do the hard work work but aren't hampered by meaningless guilt over things they are not responsible for. I make it my mission in my professional life to capture as much of that value as I can and do with it as I see fit. Which usually means spending it in productive ways with businesses that enrich the community.

jessedhillon 16y ago
I was with you until you decided to call people who pay you and organize your labor "ruthless jackasses." Just because you can't touch or appreciate their work doesn't mean that they don't add value.
- tastybites 16y ago
  Just because you can't touch or appreciate their work I can definitely appreciate the work, as I'm a business owner. I know this kind of objectivity is a bit strange, but I have both employees and clients, so I see both sides of the table on a regular basis. I'm just calling it like I see it.
  - jessedhillon 16y ago
    The maybe you can clarify who these ruthless jackasses are?
    - tastybites 16y ago
      Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I try to be one most of the time. It doesn't always work, because I am not a sociopath and I follow the law, but I'm sure there are others out there that don't have these hangups.
- T-R 16y ago
  I think his point, without the "jackasses" part, is this - value creation is not zero sum, but value claiming is, so if you're creating more value than you're claiming in compensation, it implies that the person on the other side of the table is claiming more compensation than they've created value. This is what you're negotiating when you negotiate salary, benefits, and working conditions, and a lot of that has to do with your BATNA - the pay you could be getting elsewhere, and the others your employer could hire. So if you could be getting more elsewhere, then the others who are splitting up the profits are getting more compensation than they created value - others who are getting far less than their market value aren't part of the negotiation, unless your employer is thinking of hiring them. In short: If you're thinking of working in Finance, and your employer has no intention of hiring a starving programmer from another country, then you're underpaid. If your employer is looking into outsourcing, and you're not searching for jobs, you're overpaid.
redstripe 16y ago
If fair distribution is your concern then you should probably be more focused on the people at the bottom end making 20k-40k that could be making more. This article was not about those people. Employers will only pay as much as it takes to keep you from leaving. At 150k a year the ratio of people who would be willing and capable of replacing you is pretty high.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  It's not a matter of "fair", whatever that might mean. The point is that if you don't take it, people above you do. It's not returned to some global pool of good-will.
  - redstripe 16y ago
    You're saying that your salary has no affect outside of your company. That's it's all internal accounting. I don't agree with that. Salaries will affect the price of your service. That price is paid by everyone else who doesn't work for your company and passed along. You are taking a bigger share from everyone.
shalmanese 16y ago
A toolmaker makes his living by taking a 80 cent piece of wood and a $2 piece of metal and combining them into a hammer which he can sell for $15. A manager makes his living by taking a $80,000 employee and a $200,000 employee and combining them into a business unit which is worth $1.5M. Neither is any more immoral than the other and neither captures more than their fair share of value.
- tastybites 16y ago
  Right, in theory. But in reality, in any organization of sufficient size, you have a lot of people who don't actually do anything creative clamoring to capture that excess value generated by the people at the bottom (and at the top!). These are the people you are trying to push out, not the productive, well compensated people.
- hallmark 16y ago
  I'm sorry, but this analogy is too loose for me; I must rebut. Suppose the toolmaker maintains these profits by keeping his thumb on the wood-seller who can barely support his family selling 80 cent pieces of wood. If the toolmaker paid the wood-seller $1 or $1.30, this would be more in line with what the wood is worth. The fairness of these price points can be argued. Now we're back to considering whether engineers are underpaid!

jessedhillon 16y ago

I was with you until you decided to call people who pay you and organize your labor "ruthless jackasses." Just because you can't touch or appreciate their work doesn't mean that they don't add value.

tastybites 16y ago
Just because you can't touch or appreciate their work I can definitely appreciate the work, as I'm a business owner. I know this kind of objectivity is a bit strange, but I have both employees and clients, so I see both sides of the table on a regular basis. I'm just calling it like I see it.
- jessedhillon 16y ago
  The maybe you can clarify who these ruthless jackasses are?
  - tastybites 16y ago
    Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I try to be one most of the time. It doesn't always work, because I am not a sociopath and I follow the law, but I'm sure there are others out there that don't have these hangups.
T-R 16y ago
I think his point, without the "jackasses" part, is this - value creation is not zero sum, but value claiming is, so if you're creating more value than you're claiming in compensation, it implies that the person on the other side of the table is claiming more compensation than they've created value. This is what you're negotiating when you negotiate salary, benefits, and working conditions, and a lot of that has to do with your BATNA - the pay you could be getting elsewhere, and the others your employer could hire. So if you could be getting more elsewhere, then the others who are splitting up the profits are getting more compensation than they created value - others who are getting far less than their market value aren't part of the negotiation, unless your employer is thinking of hiring them. In short: If you're thinking of working in Finance, and your employer has no intention of hiring a starving programmer from another country, then you're underpaid. If your employer is looking into outsourcing, and you're not searching for jobs, you're overpaid.

redstripe 16y ago

If fair distribution is your concern then you should probably be more focused on the people at the bottom end making 20k-40k that could be making more. This article was not about those people. Employers will only pay as much as it takes to keep you from leaving. At 150k a year the ratio of people who would be willing and capable of replacing you is pretty high.

waterlesscloud 16y ago
It's not a matter of "fair", whatever that might mean. The point is that if you don't take it, people above you do. It's not returned to some global pool of good-will.
- redstripe 16y ago
  You're saying that your salary has no affect outside of your company. That's it's all internal accounting. I don't agree with that. Salaries will affect the price of your service. That price is paid by everyone else who doesn't work for your company and passed along. You are taking a bigger share from everyone.

shalmanese 16y ago

A toolmaker makes his living by taking a 80 cent piece of wood and a $2 piece of metal and combining them into a hammer which he can sell for $15. A manager makes his living by taking a $80,000 employee and a $200,000 employee and combining them into a business unit which is worth $1.5M. Neither is any more immoral than the other and neither captures more than their fair share of value.

tastybites 16y ago
Right, in theory. But in reality, in any organization of sufficient size, you have a lot of people who don't actually do anything creative clamoring to capture that excess value generated by the people at the bottom (and at the top!). These are the people you are trying to push out, not the productive, well compensated people.
hallmark 16y ago
I'm sorry, but this analogy is too loose for me; I must rebut. Suppose the toolmaker maintains these profits by keeping his thumb on the wood-seller who can barely support his family selling 80 cent pieces of wood. If the toolmaker paid the wood-seller $1 or $1.30, this would be more in line with what the wood is worth. The fairness of these price points can be argued. Now we're back to considering whether engineers are underpaid!