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How to grip a pen?
- bikenaga 7y agoSomewhere online (maybe here) I read the suggestion to hold the pen between the index and middle fingers (with the thumb slightly below and to the side, where it will naturally fall). I've done it this way ever since - it's much more comfortable, and I find it easier to control the pen.
- 1MachineElf 7y agoI've held a pen like this all my life. Long term effects are a callous on the middle finger front-most knuckle and a slightly crooked index finger. Gets the job done, but I wonder if there is a better way.
- lisper 7y agoThere is. 1. Touch the pad of your thumb to the pad of your index finger. 2. Curl your middle finger slightly so that the side of the tip of your middle finger just touches the side of your thumb. There should be no space between your middle and index fingers. 3. If you've done it properly, your hand will feel completely relaxed, and there will be a little triangular-shaped hole created by your thumb, index, and middle fingers. Stick the pen in this hole and hold it just tightly enough to keep it from falling out. It should take almost no muscle tension to hold it in place. This is very similar to what you've described. You may still get a callus on your middle finger, but your index finger should not be crooked.
- MivLives 7y agoDid the same thing. It took a bit to get used to but I really prefer it now. My hand writing improved a little bit.
- Causality1 7y agoWhat I've noticed among my friends and family is that the people with the ugliest pen grip also have the prettiest writing. My grip is beautiful but I write like a meth-addicted gorilla.
- blahedo 7y agoThe most important thing I did to "ease" my pen grip was to stop using ball-point pens. They require a lot more pressure in order to put ink to paper than, say, a gel pen. My hands thank me!
- dotancohen 7y agoBall-point pens actually were very painful for me to use after breaking my dominant hand thumb. Fountain pens forced me to both grip and stoke much more gently, and even fifteen years later I still use fountain pens almost exclusively.
- pjc50 7y ago"Gel" pens are a good compromise, involving a ball but requiring less pressure. As are "technical" pens, although a bit pricey.
- buckminster 7y agoI use a 0.1mm Unipin. They are a bit cheaper in the UK but they are still only a couple of dollars. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mitsubishi+unipin https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Da...
- falcolas 7y agoRollerball require the least pressure (of the ball-point pend family), but the near-complete lack of resistance actually makes it harder to write neatly, since you can't rely on the friction to keep the pen under control. A good fountain pen nib is similar, since it tends to glide over the paper on top of the ink.
- DanTheManPR 7y agoI've found myself gravitating back to ballpoints specifically because I find the pressure gives me more feedback and helps me write more neatly.
- webconnoisseur 7y agoI was just discussing this with my wife as my 6-year old daughter developed an interesting grip (not shown in any of those pictures). With humans being creatures of habit, I'm curious if there is generally a certain age where the grip should be corrected, especially if it looks like a straining one. I remember having a co-worker who held her pen in her fist, like she was writing with a boxing glove on (puts all the strain in the arm, elbow & shoulder).
- willtim 7y agoMy 6 year old does the grip first described in the post. Her school teacher has shown much apathy in correcting it and even suggested it was "too late" (UK state school). I'm going to try and help her myself. Tips include shorter pencils and "pinch and flip": http://mamaot.com/3-tricks-to-help-kids-learn-to-hold-their-pencil-correctly/ http://mamaot.com/3-tricks-to-help-kids-learn-to-hold-their-...
- Double_a_92 7y agoWhen I went to school we had little rubber things that you could slide onto a pencil. It had dimples for where your fingers were supposed to go. Also it was soft so you didn't hurt your fingers until you got the pressure right. (Apparently they are sold as "pencil grips".)
- GistNoesis 7y agoHave you tried teaching her lock-picking ? Its a fun activity to develop fine dexterity. Having the right grip helps with the motor control.
- pjc50 7y ago"I taught my six-year-old lock picking, and now I have two problems"
- colechristensen 7y agoI have never able to hold a pen like I'm "supposed" to, or really how I've seen described. I hold my pen between the pad of my thumb and the side of my index finger in the neighborhood of the first knuckle.
- jansan 7y agoI really wonder who came up with the idea that one and the same grip must be the "correct" one for everybody.
- gowld 7y agoMost people have the same shape finger bones and muscles, and (within a country) are writing the same letter forms.
- buckminster 7y agoMaybe generations of teachers who noticed that poor grips often lead to pain and difficulty writing.
- mnl 7y agoI come from a family of schoolteachers and as far as I can tell since the 19th century the grip they taught was something like the "dynamic tripod", which of course is the one I use (and advocate strongly). Modern teachers who don't teach "proper" postural techniques just don't know better or have been told it doesn't matter. I think it does. There's a proper way to hold a pool cue, a golf club, a violin or a chef's knife. They come from people who were good at it and did it for a living, so what you're looking at are ways of doing it fast, accurately and for extended periods of time without injuring yourself. Handwriting isn't any different, it's just apparently not essential anymore. I concede left-handed proper grips don't have that much tradition. As everything concerning left-handed people, they should get more consideration (maybe looking again at the practical assumptions about symmetry made by right-handed people).
- hatmatrix 7y agoIn Japan I believe the (true and only correct) way to hold a pen is taught and emphasized from a young age, while the United States maintains a "do it your way" mentality about it. It may have to do with chopsticks requiring similar precision or that it is difficult to follow the detailed prescriptions for writing Chinese characters otherwise - I'm just speculating here.
- konart 7y agoSame in Russia, to a lesser defgree. For pens\penls\forks\knives. My grip was always 'right' but I clearly remember my father commenting every time he saw a person holding his tool the wrong way. To him me doing it the right way was like a little victory or something.
- simplegeek 7y agoWhat's the preferred grip taught in Russia?
- Grue3 7y agoI don't remember being taught how to grip a pen correctly. I'm pretty sure my grip is wrong too, since I developed a callus on my index finger from writing too much during school. FWIW I grip like "dynamic tripod grip" on "figure 3", except the thumb is perpendicular to the pen.
- konart 7y agoSomething like this: https://ds04.infourok.ru/uploads/ex/07fb/00195c5a-00265f89/640/img1.jpg https://ds04.infourok.ru/uploads/ex/07fb/00195c5a-00265f89/6... But general idea is that you have to do simple exercises with a kid before school so that a kid won't be just clenching a pen like they usually do with a spoon when they a small. We even have a short poem for breaks during such exercises. :D Something like this: We were writting, we were writting, Our fingers got all tired. Gonna get a little rest Then we'll pick from where we left.
- davchana 7y ago
- usui 7y agoI write with both hands, so maybe I can explain some of the issues that I run into with left-handed writing, and how it differs from my experience with my right hand. This is a topic I have thought about greatly. Left-handed writing, as a core difference from which all other differences stem, has you pushing on the page, which would make a right-handed writer feel uncomfortable since it is never a muscle that needs to be used for the latter. This results in shaky or crooked writing. Another experience I have from pushing during left-handed writing is that my hand tires faster, as I try to switch between "bent-inward" index finger and relaxed index finger, which I use interchangeably depending on how much fine control I need. Using the bipod or "index and thumb" grip helps for fatigue, but it loses precision. Finally there is the angle of the palm which varies greatly among left-handed writers, which is how do I rotate the paper so that I don't smudge my writing, or so that I can see my writing as I go? The more the paper is rotated, the more uncomfortable it gets, but it has utility. Here are some nice diagrams on the variations: http://www.musanim.com/mam/lefthand.htm http://www.musanim.com/mam/lefthand.htm For right-handed writing, most of these are never a concern for me. My right hand "pulls" on the page in the rightward direction and I never have to rotate the page in order to align with the writing line. Writing comes by pointing the pencil where I want it to go and then "moving" it right, rather than for left-handed writing I have to push "right and forward". The rise of writing on tablet computers has improved the writing experience for left-handed writers by a significant amount because it can pan, zoom, and rotate as necessary. Still there remains the issue of having to push. So if I can choose to use my right hand to write at all, why would I use my left hand? This may be a placebo effect, but I find that using my left hand to write allowed me to soak in concepts and let them ruminate as I write the notes. It becomes a more "personal" attachment to the notes I'm taking, whereas right-handed helped produce as much writing as needed. One advantage with left-handed writing comes when using a tablet. Many notetaking apps such as "Goodnotes 5" do not present a color wheel to appear at where your pencil is pointing. The color palette stays fixed at the top right corner. Having to change color rapidly but keep the pencil in the same place is possible by using my right finger to change the color. And if I have to use the tools stuck at the top left corner, I switch to writing with my right hand and use my left hand for tool selection. Finally, one nichr benefit from using both hands to write is simultaneous two-handed writing. Once can produce writing faster by using both hands to write at the same time if you can visualize ahead fast enough. It also helps when using two different pen colors (red + blue) simultaneously. It would be great if I could think in parallel and write notes in two different topics or languages at once. I wonder if there are any other ambidextrous writers on here who can also weigh in with their experience.
- gumby 7y agoI’m surprised they don’t teach this in US schools. I just Saturday had a large stack of documents notarized and I observed the poor notary getting hand cramps. Then I saw her grip on her pen and it was no wonder. I felt sorry for her.
- dmitriid 7y agoMy impression from the US was that everyone writes with a quadrupod grip. Which looks very inefficient.
- yboris 7y agoI was born in Russia, we were taught to hold a pen a certain way. We had exercises too (one I remember: grip the pen (with 3 fingers) and dab it forward-and-back by bending the three fingers and unbending them). I was shocked at the way people help pens in the US when I arrived. The grip we were taught I believe gives you more control over the pen, with no straining -- just an elegant extension of fingertips.
- joecool1029 7y agoWeird that this post came up and I missed it before. My last few comments were on my trials and tribulations with handwriting. In kindergarten my teacher had the students use these, they helped guide proper form (in the US like 25+ years ago): https://www.amazon.com/Pencil-Grip-Universal-Ergonomic-TPG-11106/dp/B001SN8HOY https://www.amazon.com/Pencil-Grip-Universal-Ergonomic-TPG-1...
- Jaruzel 7y agoAs a left hander, writing is difficult. Western writing favours right handers; from the direction of flow, down to the formation of letters. That coupled with mild dyspraxia, meant that I have a death grip on a pen - I grip it so hard the ends of my fingers turn white, all the while trying to control my movement as if an invisible force is constantly tugging the nib in random directions. And don't get me started on fountain pens - they are explicitly designed to be 'dragged' across the page. As a left hander you mostly 'push' - I broke so many fountain pen nibs, until I eventually gave up using them. Changing my grip on a pen now, would probably make all my issues worse, not better!
- probably_wrong 7y ago> And don't get me started on fountain pens - they are explicitly designed to be 'dragged' across the page. As a left hander you mostly 'push' A left-handed childhood friend of mine would place her folders at a ~45 degree angle, and write at an angle. That way, she was not pushing the pen from the left (smudge the paper with her hand), but rather pulling from top-left to bottom-right. That said I also abandoned fountain pens - writing with them looks nicer, but writing math quickly is a pain.
- nulbyte 7y agoA lefty myself, I actually prefer a fountain pen and haven't had much trouble with them. I find with a good fountain pen, I need much less pressure to write solid lines, and they don't get jammed up like ballpoints, making the inkflow more consistent. I also tend to write with the paper at an angle to match the shape of my arm.
- richardjdare 7y agoI'm also left-handed and dyspraxic. At school they gave me a triangular rubber grip [0] to put on my pen to help me hold it properly. Though I didn't get much better despite spending hours doing handwriting practice. At high school after I finally got diagnosed they lent me a little Amstrad laptop to do my work on [1] I can write neatly if I "draw" the words, but it takes ages. My handwriting hasn't been an issue since I left school, so I don't worry about it too much. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triangular-Pencil-Grip-5-Pack/dp/B004O7F1GI https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triangular-Pencil-Grip-5-Pack/dp/B0... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_NC100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_NC100
- mrob 7y agoI was never taught how to hold a pen correctly as a child, and self-taught the first bad method from the chart (index finger overlapping thumb). I assumed writing was supposed to hurt, and never questioned this until I was an adult because it was consistent with my perception that the main purpose of school was to inflict suffering on children. I think this might have contributed to my interest in computers. I starting typing all assignments as early as possible, because it was so much faster and less painful. I later taught myself conventional pen grip, and then switched to a Lamy Safari fountain pen. The Lamy Safari has an approximately triangular section grip part, which forces conventional grip. I think all pens and pencils used in schools should have this design.
- ivix 7y agoWow. You may want to take the opportunity to look at every aspect of your life and look for where you should be questioning how things are done. NM
- bepvte 7y agoAs someone with serious writing issues, I can recommend the "penagain" for being really excellent to use
- anonsivalley652 7y agoMy handwriting looks like I had a cerebral hemorrhage and then Parkinson's. I don't know how I made it through primary school when penmanship was still graded, although the grading was in its waning years.
- arketyp 7y agoI've used the dynamic quadrupod grip my entire life, fingers very close to the tip of the pen by the way. I used to draw a lot as a kid and I think this grip gives good precision. It's not ideal for extended periods of writing perhaps, but it's not too bad of a compromise.
- jansan 7y agoSame here. Teachers tried to push me to the "correct" grip, but it just did not work for me. They said I would get severe hand pain if I grow older. Never happened, always felt comfortable with this grip.
- philote 7y agoI use the same grip. I just tried several different grips using fewer fingers and I feel that they all impede pen movement because the fingers not on the pen are in the way. It just feels less versatile or something.
- jccalhoun 7y agoI use what they call the "dynamic quadrupod" grip. I've tried the "correct" grip but I find that either the pen is at a lower angle or I have to turn my wrist more to get it at a higher angle. Maybe it is because I'm left handed but neither of those options work as well for me. I try not to judge but when I see someone hold a pen between their index and middle finger I find it hard not to. A few years ago Taylor Swift was in a Coke commercial where she was writing lyrics. The first thing I noticed was how she holds her pen and it drove me crazy. https://imgur.com/QyTQpre https://imgur.com/QyTQpre
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- alderz 7y agoI love how the Escher's work "Drawing hands" shows the "correct" way to hold a pen: https://moa.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/lw355.jpg https://moa.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/lw355.jpg I think I changed my grip after seeing the painting.
- kazinator 7y agoMore importantly, Escher's drawing also shows us a DIY pencil handle that turns free IKEA freebies into a full-length writing instruments.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- hprotagonist 7y agoGrip matters a great deal for a calligraphic hand. Take a chisel-tip felt pen and try to write sensibly with the broad part of the chisel, and you’ll quickly discover a few things: why calligraphic hands look like they do, how to form letters with a mixture of line widths, and how your hand has to hold the pen in order to produce legible text. Incidentally there’s this often implicit belief that people’s handwriting was better in the past than it is now. I mostly don’t believe this—there’s just a sample bias towards only showing the nice writing that was often made by professional scribes. And some scribes had shitty hands, too.
- falcolas 7y ago> implicit belief that people’s handwriting was better in the past than it is now I, on the other hand, believe this. When typing doesn't exist, and your livelihood depends on your records being legible, you put a lot more effort into legibility (and having heard a few stories about the corporal punishment associated with poor handwriting in schools a century ago, you'd get better out of pure self-preservation). To back that up with an anecdote, I found a box of private bank ledgers maintained by my maternal grandfather, and I was absolutely astounded at how neatly he wrote. These were for only his own consumption, but the handwriting was clearly legible to me a five decades later. Even my mother's handwriting is quite legible, even though computers became popular in her 40's (and typewriters in her teens).
- hprotagonist 7y agoOn the other hand, you can find a consistent thread throughout written history of scribes bitching about punk kids these days and their crappy communication styles...
- jandrese 7y agoOccasionally you'll find old notes from some club that Newton was a member of or similar historic handwritten notes posted to this site and usually the handwriting is horrible, but also highly variable. Some people having nearly impenetrable script while other script looks beautiful. One person with amazingly clear handwriting: Donald Knuth. I showed one of his handwritten notes to a colleague and they asked why he had typed it up in a Comic Sans derivative.
- harimau777 7y agoHmm, I seem to do a hybrid of the dynamic tripod and the lateral tripod. I hold "grip" the pen using the side of my thumb like in the lateral tripod, but I guide the tip with my index finger like in the dynamic tripod. I also don't rest any of my fingers on the paper. Instead I rest the side of my hand on the paper. I remember as a child I didn't like the feeling of pulling on the pad of my index finger when I gripped with my fingers (e.g. the dynamic grips) which is why I used the lateral style grip.
- btbuildem 7y agoOK, so you hold a pen like a child. Props for noticing and improving your technique -- ingrained habits are difficult to change, takes a lot of mindfulness at first.
- leg100 7y agoThen there is this funky avant garde grip: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/236206-alternative-grip/ http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/236206-alterna...
- btbuildem 7y agoUm.. I've always used this grip with either hand, didn't realize that it was so "out there"
- jeherr 7y agoI have crazy hitchhiker's thumb, so much so that I can bend my thumb almost straight backwards. When I hold a pen I cradle it with my index, middle, and ring finger all opposite my thumb, which is angled backwards and applies the pressure onto the pen. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else who holds a pen like I do. I get comments on it all the time.
- zubspace 7y agoI've actually learned how to hold a pen ergonomically by Taylor Swift. [1] Sounds crazy, but I use the grip with a drawing tablet pen and it just feels natural. I hold the pen between index finger and middle finger and use the thumb to click buttons. I started to get some RSI pain using a normal mouse, because I believe the hand seems to rest too flat on the table. I first switched to one of those crazy ergonomic mice [2] without much success, because I think, there the hand position is just too steep/vertical. Then I completely switch from a mouse to a drawing tablet and I fully recovered. I also think, that you don't need as much force to move around your hand compared to a mouse. [1] http://spdrdng.com/posts/how-to-hold-your-pen-in-the-most-ergonomic-way http://spdrdng.com/posts/how-to-hold-your-pen-in-the-most-er... [2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Buttons/dp/B00JODVD5K https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-But...
- jermaustin1 7y agoOddly enough, when i'm going for long writing periods, the Taylor Swift method is how i do it. I've been writing that way since high school when we had to write out 5-10-page essays instead of typing them. I get slightly less control, but can chicken scratch for hours without any fatigue.
- keeganjw 7y agoI laughed when I saw this was the top comment on this post! My first thought reading this article was, dang, wait til he learns how Taylor Swift holds a pen. It looks weird at first but it's surprisingly comfortable and easy to write with!
- underthensun 7y agoI eneded up doing something like this when I was trying to find a new way to hold the pen because it's was in such pain that I have had to change.
- tartoran 7y agoThere's a very interesting adjustable pen, the Yoropen [0]. I haven't tried and I am not left handed but it might be interesting to try. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IYUO3EM?tag=aboutcom02thebalancesmb-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=4156552%7Cn5cdbfda5abcc45c7b005903b8f74e79d15 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IYUO3EM?tag=aboutcom02thebalanc...
- bakul 7y agoI have always used the dynamic tripod grip (the same grip shown in Escher’s “Drawing Hands” drawing). I am right-handed but I write “away” from me, at a 60° angle or more. I wonder how common this is. While writing with the Apple “pencil” on the iPad, I typically have to use the orientation lock! Some apps such as Goodnotes allow you to control the angle but not Apple’s own Notes.