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I moved to the US from Canada on a TN. I would've liked to stay where I was but the local job market wasn't great at the time. At the time I viewed it as tempor

I moved to the US from Canada on a TN. I would've liked to stay where I was but the local job market wasn't great at the time. At the time I viewed it as temporary. Now I have no plans to go back. I'm making twice the base salary and I'm in an area with a significantly lower cost of living. The TN wasn't responsible for my leaving and it isn't the reason I'm staying away.

jariel 7y ago
You actually just proved the opposite: your TN was the thing that got you a job paying 2x as much, gave you your foot in the door and exposure, and some time to establish longer-term plans. Without the TN it's likely you may not have been hired because it's not worth the effort for most companies: T1 is easy, then once you're in they can process it more. FYI this is not an argument for or against TN.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  You might not have meant it like that, but to me it sounds like a great argument in favor of TN (I'm from neither Canada nor US, for what it's worth).
  - jariel 7y ago
    From a classically liberal perspective, it would seem like an argument for TN. i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. But from almost any other perspective it's not. TN visas are mostly 'one way' - to America. It's an opportunity to suck out the best talent (the fruit of public education) for no cost. Without real reciprocity, there's no benefit to Canadians who wouldn't use the opportunity. Shockingly, neither government really keeps that much data on TN. Our incompetent governments have really little insight into what works and what does not. A TN is a 'stamp on your passport' that you get at the airport, it should be more centralized. An easy solution to the asymmetry would simply be to make it '1 for 1', i.e. one American goes to Canada for every reverse. I don't believe these are 'national/communitarian' vs. 'liberal' arguments, there's many situations we can have our cate and eat it.
    - balfirevic 7y ago
      I don't want to get into long discussion here, but I want to nitpick about this: > i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. Classically liberal perspective would be "how does this law help individuals now", not me specifically.
      - jariel 7y ago
        I understand what you're saying, but I believe that the nature of the liberal argument ultimately boils down to some kind of personal self-actualization. The popularisation of almost any liberal policy usually takes the form appealing to the choice/freedom/egoism of the individual. Sometimes in a crude way. I should have used the third person impersonal 'one sees' not 'you see' as I didn't mean 'you' of course.
    - fredophile 7y ago
      TN visas have reciprocity. Americans in those fields can also go and work freely in Canada. However, when you factor in the difference in compensation it makes sense that more Canadians move to the US than vice versa. Big tech companies opening offices in Canada may shift that balance. I know I'd rather live and work in Vancouver than San Francisco if I was being paid the same amount for both.
      - jariel 7y ago
        Yes, definitely there is legal reciprocity, but in reality, the talent flows in one direction. True reciprocity would be more or less an equal exchange of talent. I think this might be beneficial. There might be some opportunities for the Canadian government to effectively market itself in the USA.
        fredophile 7y ago
        One of the reasons for the imbalance is that the Canadian dollar has traditionally been weak compared to USD. Since a large portion of the Canadian economy is based on exporting natural resources this is an overall good thing for Canada to have. Balancing all of the competing interests in a national economy is hard. From talking with people I know who are still in Canada it sounds like the FAANG companies expanding there presence is starting to fix the wage disparity for tech workers. Without the wage gap there is less incentive to leave. I'd rather just let this continue than rely on some knee jerk government intervention that is likely to have unintended side effects.
- fredophile 7y ago
  I needed to relocate or switch to a different industry. The option to relocate to the US was partly due to the TN. However, there would have been other options I could have looked at both domestically and abroad. There are plenty of countries with relatively easy immigration for people in the tech field.

jariel 7y ago

You actually just proved the opposite: your TN was the thing that got you a job paying 2x as much, gave you your foot in the door and exposure, and some time to establish longer-term plans. Without the TN it's likely you may not have been hired because it's not worth the effort for most companies: T1 is easy, then once you're in they can process it more. FYI this is not an argument for or against TN.

balfirevic 7y ago
You might not have meant it like that, but to me it sounds like a great argument in favor of TN (I'm from neither Canada nor US, for what it's worth).
- jariel 7y ago
  From a classically liberal perspective, it would seem like an argument for TN. i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. But from almost any other perspective it's not. TN visas are mostly 'one way' - to America. It's an opportunity to suck out the best talent (the fruit of public education) for no cost. Without real reciprocity, there's no benefit to Canadians who wouldn't use the opportunity. Shockingly, neither government really keeps that much data on TN. Our incompetent governments have really little insight into what works and what does not. A TN is a 'stamp on your passport' that you get at the airport, it should be more centralized. An easy solution to the asymmetry would simply be to make it '1 for 1', i.e. one American goes to Canada for every reverse. I don't believe these are 'national/communitarian' vs. 'liberal' arguments, there's many situations we can have our cate and eat it.
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    I don't want to get into long discussion here, but I want to nitpick about this: > i.e. you see the world in terms of 'how does this law help me now'. Classically liberal perspective would be "how does this law help individuals now", not me specifically.
    - jariel 7y ago
      I understand what you're saying, but I believe that the nature of the liberal argument ultimately boils down to some kind of personal self-actualization. The popularisation of almost any liberal policy usually takes the form appealing to the choice/freedom/egoism of the individual. Sometimes in a crude way. I should have used the third person impersonal 'one sees' not 'you see' as I didn't mean 'you' of course.
  - fredophile 7y ago
    TN visas have reciprocity. Americans in those fields can also go and work freely in Canada. However, when you factor in the difference in compensation it makes sense that more Canadians move to the US than vice versa. Big tech companies opening offices in Canada may shift that balance. I know I'd rather live and work in Vancouver than San Francisco if I was being paid the same amount for both.
    - jariel 7y ago
      Yes, definitely there is legal reciprocity, but in reality, the talent flows in one direction. True reciprocity would be more or less an equal exchange of talent. I think this might be beneficial. There might be some opportunities for the Canadian government to effectively market itself in the USA.
      - fredophile 7y ago
        One of the reasons for the imbalance is that the Canadian dollar has traditionally been weak compared to USD. Since a large portion of the Canadian economy is based on exporting natural resources this is an overall good thing for Canada to have. Balancing all of the competing interests in a national economy is hard. From talking with people I know who are still in Canada it sounds like the FAANG companies expanding there presence is starting to fix the wage disparity for tech workers. Without the wage gap there is less incentive to leave. I'd rather just let this continue than rely on some knee jerk government intervention that is likely to have unintended side effects.
fredophile 7y ago
I needed to relocate or switch to a different industry. The option to relocate to the US was partly due to the TN. However, there would have been other options I could have looked at both domestically and abroad. There are plenty of countries with relatively easy immigration for people in the tech field.