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Software engineer salaries are significantly lower than in the US. > The median Canadian “Software Engineer” salary is CA$72,000. The median US salary is US$91

Software engineer salaries are significantly lower than in the US. > The median Canadian “Software Engineer” salary is CA$72,000. The median US salary is US$91,000.... The cost of living in Vancouver is about 4.8% higher than Austin. While the median Software Engineer salary in Austin is 40% higher than Vancouver when accounting for the exchange rate. https://medium.com/@sprice/more-canadian-software-engineers-should-work-remotely-c69f52c746d4 https://medium.com/@sprice/more-canadian-software-engineers-...

ajayyy 7y ago
Depends on the city. But yes, that's why so many people leave
smnrchrds 7y ago
As an aside, I passionately hate that graph. It implies that Canadian tech salaries are abnormally low. I wish it was either showing just the US, or included more countries than just US and Canada. Had they included London, Sydney, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. in the graph, it would have showed that Canadian salaries are in line with and towards the higher end of world salaries except US, and that US salaries are a huge outlier in the world stage.
- starky 7y ago
  Sure you could add other cities, but the result of the graph is the same for Canadians. We are getting absolutely hosed on salary considering that nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar. It makes it really hard to attract talent when someone looking for a job could move 4 hours south and make 50-100% more money to have more purchasing power. Other countries being similar to our level doesn't change this fact, they are also being screwed over in purchasing power, but they at least have some insulation from being directly dependent on the US.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Add in the 50% taxes it really makes things very expensive.
    - 52-6F-62 7y ago
      We don’t pay 50% in tax... Even at the higher income scales
      - yellowait44 7y ago
        Federal higher income bracket is not 50% but you have to factor the province as well so yeah well above 50% in Quebec for instance.
        smnrchrds 7y ago
        I mean, you are technically correct. If you earn more than approximately 800k in Quebec, you would pay about 50% of your income in taxes. But how many people earn remotely that much? Is this really a concern for us mere mortals?
        yellowait44 7y ago
        Average tax of 50% is pretty hard to hit you are right but I was more pointing at marginal tax rate which is what most people refer to when they say Canadian income tax are high. Just check the CRA tax brackets and add in the Revenu Quebec tax bracket for instance.
        yellowait44 7y ago
        For those who want to verify https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individ... and add Quebec tax bracket: https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citizens/your-situation/new-residents/the-quebec-taxation-system/income-tax-rates/ https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citizens/your-situation/new-r...
  - smnrchrds 7y ago
    > nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar This is another persistent myth I wish would die. For example, between 1998 and 2018 (a recent 20 year period for which data is readily available), USD/CAD exchange rate has been as favourable as 0.989 CAD per USD and as unfavourable as 1.570 CAD per USD [1], approximately a 59% difference between the highest and the lowest. During the same period, purchasing power parity has only fluctuated between 1.185 and 1.248 CAD per USD [2], only a 5% difference between the highest and the lowest. Contrary to the popular online belief, Canadian currency is not a proxy that is only good for exchanging for USD to buy good and services. It is an independent and strong currency on its own. [1] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/exchange-rates.htm https://data.oecd.org/conversion/exchange-rates.htm [2] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-ppp.htm#indicator-chart https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-p...
- deanCommie 7y ago
  This needs to be more visible. I'm a Canadian working for a US FAANMG company, and I've been based out of both their Canadian and European offices. I make way more in Vancouver than my peers in ANY European office (which include Zurich, London, Berlin) And those places are more expensive than Vancouver (not counting buying real estate which is not relevant to me as a renter) But of course I'm keenly aware that I'd make 30% more in Seattle, and 50% more in Silicon Valley. Does it bother me? Not really. I've been to those places and I would take the lifestyle quality of both Vancouver and Canada over any part of the US. Plus these days, I don't see a way of living in the US, and not feeling complicit in all the evils of the country. Not without radical participation in trying to destroy the system from within. And despite what people say about the similarity in work culture, it's more reasonable in Canada from sick leave to vacation, to day-to-day expectations of work-life balance.
  - permatech 7y ago
    > I don't see a way of living in the US, and not feeling complicit in all the evils of the country Hyperbole much? Do you lose sleep over tar sands?
  - wbl 7y ago
    Is your employer spending the same in all these places? If not it should bother you.
- ta416425 7y ago
  Fact of the matter is good talent can choose between Canada and the US, and it's pretty easy for a Canadian engineer (especially early in their career) to move to the US to work. The US is close to Canada geographically and culturally so of course it's going to be the logical alternative. Especially when the pay is so much better. Of course no one from Vancouver or Toronto will move to Sydney or Berlin for best-in-class career prospects. You go to the USA for that, so long as you're willing to stomach the environment.
chrisseaton 7y ago
That’s just less than astronomically expensive not cheap. If they were after cheap they’d go to Berlin or London - that’s cheaper than Canadian cities for cost of labour.
- jessriedel 7y ago
  Each company faces different constraints, and in particular there can be downsides going to Europe that don't exist for Canada, e.g., language, timezone, regulations, travel costs, culture.) A sandwich in Ohio is reasonably called "cheap" when I've been living in NYC, and I don't feel the need to say "but it would be really cheap in rural India".

ajayyy 7y ago

Depends on the city. But yes, that's why so many people leave

smnrchrds 7y ago

As an aside, I passionately hate that graph. It implies that Canadian tech salaries are abnormally low. I wish it was either showing just the US, or included more countries than just US and Canada. Had they included London, Sydney, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. in the graph, it would have showed that Canadian salaries are in line with and towards the higher end of world salaries except US, and that US salaries are a huge outlier in the world stage.

starky 7y ago
Sure you could add other cities, but the result of the graph is the same for Canadians. We are getting absolutely hosed on salary considering that nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar. It makes it really hard to attract talent when someone looking for a job could move 4 hours south and make 50-100% more money to have more purchasing power. Other countries being similar to our level doesn't change this fact, they are also being screwed over in purchasing power, but they at least have some insulation from being directly dependent on the US.
- wolco 7y ago
  Add in the 50% taxes it really makes things very expensive.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    We don’t pay 50% in tax... Even at the higher income scales
    - yellowait44 7y ago
      Federal higher income bracket is not 50% but you have to factor the province as well so yeah well above 50% in Quebec for instance.
      - smnrchrds 7y ago
        I mean, you are technically correct. If you earn more than approximately 800k in Quebec, you would pay about 50% of your income in taxes. But how many people earn remotely that much? Is this really a concern for us mere mortals?
        yellowait44 7y ago
        Average tax of 50% is pretty hard to hit you are right but I was more pointing at marginal tax rate which is what most people refer to when they say Canadian income tax are high. Just check the CRA tax brackets and add in the Revenu Quebec tax bracket for instance.
        yellowait44 7y ago
        For those who want to verify https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individ... and add Quebec tax bracket: https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citizens/your-situation/new-residents/the-quebec-taxation-system/income-tax-rates/ https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citizens/your-situation/new-r...
- smnrchrds 7y ago
  > nearly everything (minus housing) in Canada is pegged to the US dollar This is another persistent myth I wish would die. For example, between 1998 and 2018 (a recent 20 year period for which data is readily available), USD/CAD exchange rate has been as favourable as 0.989 CAD per USD and as unfavourable as 1.570 CAD per USD [1], approximately a 59% difference between the highest and the lowest. During the same period, purchasing power parity has only fluctuated between 1.185 and 1.248 CAD per USD [2], only a 5% difference between the highest and the lowest. Contrary to the popular online belief, Canadian currency is not a proxy that is only good for exchanging for USD to buy good and services. It is an independent and strong currency on its own. [1] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/exchange-rates.htm https://data.oecd.org/conversion/exchange-rates.htm [2] https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-ppp.htm#indicator-chart https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-p...
deanCommie 7y ago
This needs to be more visible. I'm a Canadian working for a US FAANMG company, and I've been based out of both their Canadian and European offices. I make way more in Vancouver than my peers in ANY European office (which include Zurich, London, Berlin) And those places are more expensive than Vancouver (not counting buying real estate which is not relevant to me as a renter) But of course I'm keenly aware that I'd make 30% more in Seattle, and 50% more in Silicon Valley. Does it bother me? Not really. I've been to those places and I would take the lifestyle quality of both Vancouver and Canada over any part of the US. Plus these days, I don't see a way of living in the US, and not feeling complicit in all the evils of the country. Not without radical participation in trying to destroy the system from within. And despite what people say about the similarity in work culture, it's more reasonable in Canada from sick leave to vacation, to day-to-day expectations of work-life balance.
- permatech 7y ago
  > I don't see a way of living in the US, and not feeling complicit in all the evils of the country Hyperbole much? Do you lose sleep over tar sands?
- wbl 7y ago
  Is your employer spending the same in all these places? If not it should bother you.
ta416425 7y ago
Fact of the matter is good talent can choose between Canada and the US, and it's pretty easy for a Canadian engineer (especially early in their career) to move to the US to work. The US is close to Canada geographically and culturally so of course it's going to be the logical alternative. Especially when the pay is so much better. Of course no one from Vancouver or Toronto will move to Sydney or Berlin for best-in-class career prospects. You go to the USA for that, so long as you're willing to stomach the environment.

chrisseaton 7y ago

That’s just less than astronomically expensive not cheap. If they were after cheap they’d go to Berlin or London - that’s cheaper than Canadian cities for cost of labour.

jessriedel 7y ago
Each company faces different constraints, and in particular there can be downsides going to Europe that don't exist for Canada, e.g., language, timezone, regulations, travel costs, culture.) A sandwich in Ohio is reasonably called "cheap" when I've been living in NYC, and I don't feel the need to say "but it would be really cheap in rural India".