4 ms·

I have been a software developer for 35 years (started learning in 1985, I've accomplished several pretty successful things in this time), and it's also taken m

by jng 7y ago

I have been a software developer for 35 years (started learning in 1985, I've accomplished several pretty successful things in this time), and it's also taken me over three decades to become a good musician (which I've only allowed myself to call my self very, very recently - I play piano and sing, a little bit of guitar and drums too). Programming and music are very different beasts, both very tough, both very worthwhile. I just wanted to post because the documenta above has a lot of great information (on a quick browse) and I'm sure it's filled with good intentions, but it's a very poor way to learn music. If you're a mathematician or physicist or software engineer trying to learn how to play the guitar, be it by ear or in any other way, it's not going to cut it. It's great if you read it and learn the information, but only the last 6 pages or so really talk about actually playing, and they are not going to teach you. If you want to learn to write and play music, don't delve into the math except as a side project. Learn to play a few simple songs that you like, using 3-4 simple chords (there are a ton of tutorials for that), and then spend 1,000 hours playing around on the vicinity of that musical environment. There is no shortcut, it is not about learning patterns, music is a different language, and learning music is about awakening your musical self. Learning to accompany yourself while you sing a few songs needs no understanding of the mathematical foundations at all (and they don't really help), it's mostly about learning a few basic patterns (3-4 chord finger positions) and then being good at performing (mostly tied to self-confidence). Learning to play common songs doesn't take much more. Learning to improvise and to write your own songs requires 1,000+ hours of the type of "playing/dancing/exploring" I was mentioning above. You'll learn the theory on the 10% of those 1,000 hours that you are resting and browsing the internet.

sibeliuss 7y ago
> Learning to improvise and to write your own songs requires 1,000+ hours of the type of "playing/dancing/exploring" I was mentioning above. You'll learn the theory on the 10% of those 1,000 hours that you are resting and browsing the internet. This has been my experience as well. When I first started I thought I would rush into the theory and that would allow me to improvise, but what was lacking was the playing of songs and getting a feel for the music. Learning the theory was easy -- getting a basketful of songs under my belt and then getting good at playing them took much longer, and required much more effort -- and now improvising comes more naturally, including being able to use use my ears to hear things like keys, intervals and so on. Practice, practice, practice! Learn a lot of different songs well, and fully understand the Circle of 5ths.
soulofmischief 7y ago
Chaun C. Chang's The Fundamentals of Piano Practice [0] does a fantastic job of describing the relationship between practice and improvement, and how to make the most of your time. You'll probably come across advice you've already figured out on your own, but there is a wealth of information for even experienced musicians. > Learn to play a few simple songs that you like, using 3-4 simple chords (there are a ton of tutorials for that), and then spend 1,000 hours playing around on the vicinity of that musical environment. I would fundamentally disagree. I picked up guitar 12 months ago, and while I couldn't play you a single cover song, I have written over a hundred fleshed out songs. My practice time and creative time were intertwined, and I let my practice sessions inspire my songwriting and vice versa. It created a clear path of progression for me, and through learning about and writing dozens of different genres I successfully brute-forced my songwriting skills into maturity. I didn't get locked into any particular style as to not limit myself; I intentionally didn't learn 12-bar blues, for example, until about two months ago. I'm not boxed into referring to the Circle of Fifths every time I write a progression. I still have a long way to go, for sure, but my fundamentals are solid, cohesive, and broad instead of defined by a narrow perspective of playing three-chord songs for 1000 hours. I have written a hundred songs and am preparing to gig, while my friends who have been playing guitar for 10+ years are still struggling to write their first full original song. [0] https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io/ https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io/
- wjnc 7y ago
  I'd have to agree that a 1000 hours of practice on a few chords is not the best way to learn musicality. My parents spent a fortune on private guitar tutoring to modest effect and I'd say in my case the single biggest thing was freestyle practice while listening to the progression and trying to react to the teacher. So practice indeed, but one where listening and technique are both part of the exercise at the same time. Some theory (for the mathematically inclined) did help for me to understand progressions. Things like landing on the right note are instrumental for the audience and based in theory.
- gp7 7y ago
  Fun book. "When mass produced, the cost of self-tuning options will be small compared to the price of a quality piano. You might think that this would put piano tuners out of work but that will not be the case because the number of pianos will increase (because of this book), ..." That's confidence in the method, right there.
TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
> it is not about learning patterns, music is a different language So much this.
meggar 7y ago
I agree. Beatles songs are great for this. But I would say don't stop after learning a few simple songs, always keep learning more. one new song each week maybe. Keep in mind that most of the musicians whose music you are learning probably learned this way as well. of course, if you want to learn classical or play like Coltrane, you'll need to learn the theory.

by jng 7y ago

sibeliuss 7y ago

> Learning to improvise and to write your own songs requires 1,000+ hours of the type of "playing/dancing/exploring" I was mentioning above. You'll learn the theory on the 10% of those 1,000 hours that you are resting and browsing the internet. This has been my experience as well. When I first started I thought I would rush into the theory and that would allow me to improvise, but what was lacking was the playing of songs and getting a feel for the music. Learning the theory was easy -- getting a basketful of songs under my belt and then getting good at playing them took much longer, and required much more effort -- and now improvising comes more naturally, including being able to use use my ears to hear things like keys, intervals and so on. Practice, practice, practice! Learn a lot of different songs well, and fully understand the Circle of 5ths.

soulofmischief 7y ago

Chaun C. Chang's The Fundamentals of Piano Practice [0] does a fantastic job of describing the relationship between practice and improvement, and how to make the most of your time. You'll probably come across advice you've already figured out on your own, but there is a wealth of information for even experienced musicians. > Learn to play a few simple songs that you like, using 3-4 simple chords (there are a ton of tutorials for that), and then spend 1,000 hours playing around on the vicinity of that musical environment. I would fundamentally disagree. I picked up guitar 12 months ago, and while I couldn't play you a single cover song, I have written over a hundred fleshed out songs. My practice time and creative time were intertwined, and I let my practice sessions inspire my songwriting and vice versa. It created a clear path of progression for me, and through learning about and writing dozens of different genres I successfully brute-forced my songwriting skills into maturity. I didn't get locked into any particular style as to not limit myself; I intentionally didn't learn 12-bar blues, for example, until about two months ago. I'm not boxed into referring to the Circle of Fifths every time I write a progression. I still have a long way to go, for sure, but my fundamentals are solid, cohesive, and broad instead of defined by a narrow perspective of playing three-chord songs for 1000 hours. I have written a hundred songs and am preparing to gig, while my friends who have been playing guitar for 10+ years are still struggling to write their first full original song. [0] https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io/ https://fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io/

wjnc 7y ago
I'd have to agree that a 1000 hours of practice on a few chords is not the best way to learn musicality. My parents spent a fortune on private guitar tutoring to modest effect and I'd say in my case the single biggest thing was freestyle practice while listening to the progression and trying to react to the teacher. So practice indeed, but one where listening and technique are both part of the exercise at the same time. Some theory (for the mathematically inclined) did help for me to understand progressions. Things like landing on the right note are instrumental for the audience and based in theory.
gp7 7y ago
Fun book. "When mass produced, the cost of self-tuning options will be small compared to the price of a quality piano. You might think that this would put piano tuners out of work but that will not be the case because the number of pianos will increase (because of this book), ..." That's confidence in the method, right there.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago

> it is not about learning patterns, music is a different language So much this.

meggar 7y ago

I agree. Beatles songs are great for this. But I would say don't stop after learning a few simple songs, always keep learning more. one new song each week maybe. Keep in mind that most of the musicians whose music you are learning probably learned this way as well. of course, if you want to learn classical or play like Coltrane, you'll need to learn the theory.