3 ms·

So what’s the alternative? Beef? Chicken? Pork? Vegetarian? Every one of these has significant downsides to them (for you vegetarians out there, the phosphoro

by MR4D 7y ago

So what’s the alternative? Beef? Chicken? Pork? Vegetarian? Every one of these has significant downsides to them (for you vegetarians out there, the phosphorous that leeches into the runoff is huge, affecting the ecosystem in ways we still don’t understand). I get every point you make, but honestly, what is the real alternative?

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Most vegetables are grown for lifestock food, so I don't think that's valid concern about vegetarianism. If you eat a lot of meat, then you have all the vegetarian concerns you can come up with plus all the concerns directly tied to meat plus the rest of the indirect concerns.
- MR4D 7y ago
  If you remove all the meat from the world’s food supply, you’re going to have to make up for a lot of bulk as well as protein. So you will still be growing lots of plants. And those plants will be fertilized.
- akvadrako 7y ago
  most plants grown for animal consumption are not human quality. And human food can’t be grown everywhere animal food is. For example grazing livestock using hilly land that only grows small grasses.
ijpsud 7y ago
> the phosphorous that leeches into the runoff is huge Can you please expand on this? Animal agriculture is the primary cause of ocean dead-zones (due to fertilizer + manure run-off).[0] Because you're still eating plants - it's just that you're filtering them through another animal, and thus removing the vast majority of the calories, protein, and other nutrients that you would have got if you'd directly consumed the plants. I don't think there's any debate on the relative environmental impact of a plant-based diet versus one that includes meat and dairy. It wins in terms of pollution, land usage, water usage, and basically every other metric.[1][2][3] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-industry-dead-zone-gulf-of-mexico-environment-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-ind... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding... [2] https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/ https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

by MR4D 7y ago

hombre_fatal 7y ago

Most vegetables are grown for lifestock food, so I don't think that's valid concern about vegetarianism. If you eat a lot of meat, then you have all the vegetarian concerns you can come up with plus all the concerns directly tied to meat plus the rest of the indirect concerns.

MR4D 7y ago
If you remove all the meat from the world’s food supply, you’re going to have to make up for a lot of bulk as well as protein. So you will still be growing lots of plants. And those plants will be fertilized.
akvadrako 7y ago
most plants grown for animal consumption are not human quality. And human food can’t be grown everywhere animal food is. For example grazing livestock using hilly land that only grows small grasses.

ijpsud 7y ago

> the phosphorous that leeches into the runoff is huge Can you please expand on this? Animal agriculture is the primary cause of ocean dead-zones (due to fertilizer + manure run-off).[0] Because you're still eating plants - it's just that you're filtering them through another animal, and thus removing the vast majority of the calories, protein, and other nutrients that you would have got if you'd directly consumed the plants. I don't think there's any debate on the relative environmental impact of a plant-based diet versus one that includes meat and dairy. It wins in terms of pollution, land usage, water usage, and basically every other metric.[1][2][3] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-industry-dead-zone-gulf-of-mexico-environment-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/01/meat-ind... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding... [2] https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/ https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749