3 ms·

I’ve never found that number substantiated anywhere. But we agree that the Church is tight with its money. I just argue that’s a good thing...

darksaints 7y ago
We only agree that the church is tight with its money with respect to how that money is used to benefit members and the unfortunate that should probably be the beneficiaries of good old christian charity. But tight with its money amongst those that control it? Neither of us know...because it is a secret. A secrecy that has no benefit but to protect those who control it from scrutiny. I don't know how you could view either of those things as a "good thing" in the traditional christian understanding of good.
- alanwreath 7y ago
  I think you've just described FUD. Asking for more transparency isn't bad though - this would require a change in US law or wherever they operate. Start there. Then all religions might meet the standard you're describing. There are abusers in every organization and transparency would be good.
  - darksaints 7y ago
    If they're as benevolent of an institution as they pretend, we wouldn't need such a law. They already can publish financial reports without any law compelling them to do so. But they aren't a benevolent institution.
    - lcall 7y ago
      The Church, with the Book of Mormon, are far and away the single best influence in my life. I experience peace amid hard health and other challenges, friends everywhere I go, people who help me and are a good influence, personal guidance in quiet but important ways (I see both the good and the bad based on whether I follow that guiet guidance), and I see the same things in long-term multigenerational ways among very many others (in writing and in person). And, based on experience, great reasons for hope of eternal life in the world to come. For those who distance themselves from it, they are loved, we are close, but I have seen that the multigenerational peace and joy are not the same. I am exceedingly grateful for the Church's influence in my life. Further, I have learned for myself, that God is real, helpful, and kind (both just and merciful, actions have consequences, and extremely patient with us as we repent, aka change back to doing things that help us rather than hurt ourselves). These are things that no amount of hint & innuendo from others can change, because I have personally seen, experienced, and learned. I have tried to explain more at my web site (which has no sales or javascript): http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net . I think I lack the adequate words.
    - alanwreath 7y ago
      Tried to respond a while back but was blocked, probably due to being nicked on a couple of my comments (probably from those who disagree - that’s fine). Just because an institution doesn’t go out and away to placate a minority’s concerns does not mean it is intentional or nefarious. Probably just means they’re focused on more than paper work. Demanding they do so, and that others don’t seems rather suspect though. Why treat one religion different than another? There are plenty of people abusing the system. Proposing that all these institutions be placed under the same burden. It would be fair.

darksaints 7y ago

We only agree that the church is tight with its money with respect to how that money is used to benefit members and the unfortunate that should probably be the beneficiaries of good old christian charity. But tight with its money amongst those that control it? Neither of us know...because it is a secret. A secrecy that has no benefit but to protect those who control it from scrutiny. I don't know how you could view either of those things as a "good thing" in the traditional christian understanding of good.

alanwreath 7y ago
I think you've just described FUD. Asking for more transparency isn't bad though - this would require a change in US law or wherever they operate. Start there. Then all religions might meet the standard you're describing. There are abusers in every organization and transparency would be good.
- darksaints 7y ago
  If they're as benevolent of an institution as they pretend, we wouldn't need such a law. They already can publish financial reports without any law compelling them to do so. But they aren't a benevolent institution.
  - lcall 7y ago
    The Church, with the Book of Mormon, are far and away the single best influence in my life. I experience peace amid hard health and other challenges, friends everywhere I go, people who help me and are a good influence, personal guidance in quiet but important ways (I see both the good and the bad based on whether I follow that guiet guidance), and I see the same things in long-term multigenerational ways among very many others (in writing and in person). And, based on experience, great reasons for hope of eternal life in the world to come. For those who distance themselves from it, they are loved, we are close, but I have seen that the multigenerational peace and joy are not the same. I am exceedingly grateful for the Church's influence in my life. Further, I have learned for myself, that God is real, helpful, and kind (both just and merciful, actions have consequences, and extremely patient with us as we repent, aka change back to doing things that help us rather than hurt ourselves). These are things that no amount of hint & innuendo from others can change, because I have personally seen, experienced, and learned. I have tried to explain more at my web site (which has no sales or javascript): http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net . I think I lack the adequate words.
  - alanwreath 7y ago
    Tried to respond a while back but was blocked, probably due to being nicked on a couple of my comments (probably from those who disagree - that’s fine). Just because an institution doesn’t go out and away to placate a minority’s concerns does not mean it is intentional or nefarious. Probably just means they’re focused on more than paper work. Demanding they do so, and that others don’t seems rather suspect though. Why treat one religion different than another? There are plenty of people abusing the system. Proposing that all these institutions be placed under the same burden. It would be fair.