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I thought older people are more valuable since they have more experience. There isn't much physical difference between 20, 40 and 55 year old people unless some

I thought older people are more valuable since they have more experience. There isn't much physical difference between 20, 40 and 55 year old people unless something like alzheimer kicks in, especially in our field where the job includes reading stuff and pressing button.

eli 7y ago
That logically makes sense, but the reality is agism is a huge problem in tech hiring.
- fctorial 7y ago
  Reasons?
  - bonoboTP 7y ago
    The often cited reason is that young people are easier to manipulate and exploit (overtime, passion, kool-aid about the company "mission" etc.), or more charitably phrased are more "adaptable" and less set in their ways. They have fewer responsibilities, no family etc. They are more idealistic and don't have the same cynical/sour/realist/seeing-through-the-bullshit outlook that older people have.
    - wtracy 7y ago
      They're also easier to negotiate down on salary.
  - eli 7y ago
    For hiring discrimination? I mean, that’s kind of a hard question to answer. Personally I think there are lots of people who have an idea in their head (not always consciously) of what a hotshot developer looks like. And it’s not the old guy. And I think this manifests as concerns about “culture fit” or being overqualified or other vague objections. We ALL have biases. It’s on hiring managers and HR departments and all of us to actively work to minimize their effects. This is hard to do and, unfortunately, some people don’t care to try. But certainly there are other reasons too. Bias in hiring is a tough problem.
Psyladine 7y ago
Older are more valuable hence demand compensation and don't deal well with bullshit, unlike their younger clueless counterparts.
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  Definitely true on the not putting up with bullshit part. As a 50 something I find I have no patience anymore for bullshit. Companies prefer younger folks because they're so much easier to manipulate and control.
UncleOxidant 7y ago
LoL, wait till you hit 50. I hope it doesn't come as too much of a shock. Do what you can to save up as much money as you possibly can in your 20s, 30s and 40s because it becomes a lot harder to find gigs when you hit 50 (even mid 40s in many cases). I'm in my mid-50s. Took me 9 months to find a gig a couple years ago when I was looking. Now to be completely honest that's also because I can afford to be pretty picky at this point and I was only applying for stuff that looked really interesting. And if it looked like there was just too much bullshit I wasn't interested. When you hit your 50s you've seen a lot of bullshit in your time and can smell it a mile away. So yeah, it works both ways. There's definitely ageism, but many of us who are aged have saved up enough so we are also picky about what we want to take. I'm currently between gigs again (previous contract may come back when they get funding so I'm kind of biding my time because that was a good place to work and good places to work can be hard to find). I don't want to call it quits and retire just yet, but I'm finding less and less that's non-bullshit out there these days. And the way interviewing is done these days... well, let's just say it makes me want to retire. I like the work, but I hate the interviewing.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>I thought older people are more valuable since they have more experience. There isn't much physical difference between 20, 40 and 55 year old people Older people have families, don't buy the "lets work 20 hours a day," or "we're a startup" despite being founded in 2000 or whatever, and that's a liability to some. (Another thing, is that they might be less willing to take orders from their 23 year old boss.)
silvestrov 7y ago
My personal experience is that the very best managers use "asking questions" as their main management tool as this is effective to reveal all aspects of a situation and get employees to understand and support the decisions that follow. Weak managers like to "take decisions" as a display of their value as a manager. This value elevation is undermined by old experienced employees who can point out bad decisions or that the manager doesn't understand the consequences of the decisions, i.e. a fear of being "exposed". Weak managers fear anything that makes them seem weak, like asking questions.

eli 7y ago

That logically makes sense, but the reality is agism is a huge problem in tech hiring.

fctorial 7y ago
Reasons?
- bonoboTP 7y ago
  The often cited reason is that young people are easier to manipulate and exploit (overtime, passion, kool-aid about the company "mission" etc.), or more charitably phrased are more "adaptable" and less set in their ways. They have fewer responsibilities, no family etc. They are more idealistic and don't have the same cynical/sour/realist/seeing-through-the-bullshit outlook that older people have.
  - wtracy 7y ago
    They're also easier to negotiate down on salary.
- eli 7y ago
  For hiring discrimination? I mean, that’s kind of a hard question to answer. Personally I think there are lots of people who have an idea in their head (not always consciously) of what a hotshot developer looks like. And it’s not the old guy. And I think this manifests as concerns about “culture fit” or being overqualified or other vague objections. We ALL have biases. It’s on hiring managers and HR departments and all of us to actively work to minimize their effects. This is hard to do and, unfortunately, some people don’t care to try. But certainly there are other reasons too. Bias in hiring is a tough problem.

Psyladine 7y ago

Older are more valuable hence demand compensation and don't deal well with bullshit, unlike their younger clueless counterparts.

UncleOxidant 7y ago
Definitely true on the not putting up with bullshit part. As a 50 something I find I have no patience anymore for bullshit. Companies prefer younger folks because they're so much easier to manipulate and control.

UncleOxidant 7y ago

LoL, wait till you hit 50. I hope it doesn't come as too much of a shock. Do what you can to save up as much money as you possibly can in your 20s, 30s and 40s because it becomes a lot harder to find gigs when you hit 50 (even mid 40s in many cases). I'm in my mid-50s. Took me 9 months to find a gig a couple years ago when I was looking. Now to be completely honest that's also because I can afford to be pretty picky at this point and I was only applying for stuff that looked really interesting. And if it looked like there was just too much bullshit I wasn't interested. When you hit your 50s you've seen a lot of bullshit in your time and can smell it a mile away. So yeah, it works both ways. There's definitely ageism, but many of us who are aged have saved up enough so we are also picky about what we want to take. I'm currently between gigs again (previous contract may come back when they get funding so I'm kind of biding my time because that was a good place to work and good places to work can be hard to find). I don't want to call it quits and retire just yet, but I'm finding less and less that's non-bullshit out there these days. And the way interviewing is done these days... well, let's just say it makes me want to retire. I like the work, but I hate the interviewing.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>I thought older people are more valuable since they have more experience. There isn't much physical difference between 20, 40 and 55 year old people Older people have families, don't buy the "lets work 20 hours a day," or "we're a startup" despite being founded in 2000 or whatever, and that's a liability to some. (Another thing, is that they might be less willing to take orders from their 23 year old boss.)

silvestrov 7y ago

My personal experience is that the very best managers use "asking questions" as their main management tool as this is effective to reveal all aspects of a situation and get employees to understand and support the decisions that follow. Weak managers like to "take decisions" as a display of their value as a manager. This value elevation is undermined by old experienced employees who can point out bad decisions or that the manager doesn't understand the consequences of the decisions, i.e. a fear of being "exposed". Weak managers fear anything that makes them seem weak, like asking questions.