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I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030: https://en.wikipedia.org/w

I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant? Also regarding Superphénix, your telling of this seems a bit biased - The rocket attack occurred in 1982 and it was shut down in 1997 by the prime minister due to excessive cost. As for whether fast breeder reactors are 'still considered next-gen and highly favorable' see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superphénix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superphénix "a group of 80 physicists from the Lyon Physics Institute wrote an open letter about the risks of breeder technology, and in February 1975, about 400 scientists signed their name to an expanded letter."

Spooky23 7y ago
The argument boils down to nuclear is safe and cheap, except that we only have unsafe designs because of ignorant people, it’s expensive because regulation (of the old, unacceptable designs), and waste totally isn’t a problem because someday we’ll figure it out.
elihu 7y ago
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the Fukushima reactors require active cooling at all times, and they become dangerous if there is no available electricity, whereas modern reactors can be stable without active cooling.
espadrine 7y ago
> I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030 As I mention, Superphénix is a Gen IV, and was finished building in 1981. > the primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant? Fukushima melt down because the water destroyed the backup generators. The generators are used to power the pumps. The pumps force coolants to flow, removing heat and therefore avoiding an increase in temperature beyond what is structurally sound. A typical Gen IV reactor would naturally cool down without need to keep coolant running. For instance, Superphénix immerses the breeder in a liquid sodium coolant that has an effectively unreachable boiling point, tremendous heat capacity, and no corrosion.
- lispm 7y ago
  Superphénix: During 11 years, the plant had 53 months of normal operations (mostly at low power), 25 months of outages due to fixing technical problems of the prototype, and 66 months spent on halt due to political and administrative issues. It was then closed early.
- FooHentai 7y ago
  >As I mention, Superphénix is a Gen IV, and was finished building in 1981. No, it isn't and wasn't. The Gen IV FBR types are only GFR, SFR, LMFBR and SCWR. From the link I provided earlier 'In January 2018, it was reported that "the first installation of the pressure vessel cover of the world's first Gen IV reactor" had been completed on the HTR-PM.'
  - espadrine 7y ago
    > , it isn't and wasn't. The Gen IV FBR types are only GFR, SFR, LMFBR and SCWR. Superphénix is an SFR. Its first version, Phénix, is literally cited in the official Gen IV description of what an SFR is[0]. Historically, it has not been labeled Gen IV, but only because the Gen IV nomenclature didn’t exist at the time. [0]: https://www.gen-4.org/gif/jcms/c_9361/sfr https://www.gen-4.org/gif/jcms/c_9361/sfr
lispm 7y ago
> The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred Loss of emergency electricity for the reactors. Needs for large amounts of electricity for cooling of reactors and spent fuel pools. No quick electricity from the outside for the reactors. Hydrogen explosion damaging the building. Cooling only possible with water from the outside. Structural damage due to water on the building. Spent fuel pools high in the building - hard to reach. Lots of spent fuel on the site, because a lack of storage sites. Radioactive water leaking to the environment. Possibility of severe damages on the building by further earthquakes... There were many many problems with the site.
- FooHentai 7y ago
  You're right, thank you.

Spooky23 7y ago

The argument boils down to nuclear is safe and cheap, except that we only have unsafe designs because of ignorant people, it’s expensive because regulation (of the old, unacceptable designs), and waste totally isn’t a problem because someday we’ll figure it out.

elihu 7y ago

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the Fukushima reactors require active cooling at all times, and they become dangerous if there is no available electricity, whereas modern reactors can be stable without active cooling.

espadrine 7y ago

> I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030 As I mention, Superphénix is a Gen IV, and was finished building in 1981. > the primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant? Fukushima melt down because the water destroyed the backup generators. The generators are used to power the pumps. The pumps force coolants to flow, removing heat and therefore avoiding an increase in temperature beyond what is structurally sound. A typical Gen IV reactor would naturally cool down without need to keep coolant running. For instance, Superphénix immerses the breeder in a liquid sodium coolant that has an effectively unreachable boiling point, tremendous heat capacity, and no corrosion.

lispm 7y ago
Superphénix: During 11 years, the plant had 53 months of normal operations (mostly at low power), 25 months of outages due to fixing technical problems of the prototype, and 66 months spent on halt due to political and administrative issues. It was then closed early.
FooHentai 7y ago
>As I mention, Superphénix is a Gen IV, and was finished building in 1981. No, it isn't and wasn't. The Gen IV FBR types are only GFR, SFR, LMFBR and SCWR. From the link I provided earlier 'In January 2018, it was reported that "the first installation of the pressure vessel cover of the world's first Gen IV reactor" had been completed on the HTR-PM.'
- espadrine 7y ago
  > , it isn't and wasn't. The Gen IV FBR types are only GFR, SFR, LMFBR and SCWR. Superphénix is an SFR. Its first version, Phénix, is literally cited in the official Gen IV description of what an SFR is[0]. Historically, it has not been labeled Gen IV, but only because the Gen IV nomenclature didn’t exist at the time. [0]: https://www.gen-4.org/gif/jcms/c_9361/sfr https://www.gen-4.org/gif/jcms/c_9361/sfr

lispm 7y ago

> The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred Loss of emergency electricity for the reactors. Needs for large amounts of electricity for cooling of reactors and spent fuel pools. No quick electricity from the outside for the reactors. Hydrogen explosion damaging the building. Cooling only possible with water from the outside. Structural damage due to water on the building. Spent fuel pools high in the building - hard to reach. Lots of spent fuel on the site, because a lack of storage sites. Radioactive water leaking to the environment. Possibility of severe damages on the building by further earthquakes... There were many many problems with the site.

FooHentai 7y ago
You're right, thank you.