6 ms·

The thing about climate change is that some small proportion of the population, probably elites, farsighted and lucky will likely benefit from it, in the form o

by euix 7y ago

The thing about climate change is that some small proportion of the population, probably elites, farsighted and lucky will likely benefit from it, in the form of profiting off the weakest and more vulnerable by providing some sort of assistance or accommodation, from new industries that will arise to accommodate or from arbitrage on land that will become uninhabitable versus that which will become newly inhabitable. It's a massive structural shift in the earth's environment. So I wonder if not for some they happily welcome the change as an opportunity to seize the commanding heights of the future. If climate change cannot be avoided, than the next best thing is to get ahead of it in terms of advantages over competitors in terms of technology, territory, products and services that the newly impoverished and vulnerable will require to survive. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the real thinking behind billionaire oil tycoons or climate deniers. They see it as fundamentally political as opposed to scientific in nature.

darkmighty 7y ago
This is too contrived an explanation (for the general climate change denialism), I think. I think there are two facets to it: 1) Some industries refuse to even consider it because it means they're effectively dead -- coal, oil, and a few other industries. They fuel propaganda because of this 2) Sheer ignorance I say because it's very difficult and fragile to try and profit off a genuine catastrophe. We are indeed heading for a disaster (2C warming) even under quite optimistic assumptions about world politics and people accepting climate change and whatnot; if there is not enough action, if some technologies are not developed quickly enough, we are facing genuine catastrophe (I think there's far too much faith in a magical technological solution (rapid carbon capture) in current scenarios) -- 3 or 4C warming, where you start to talk about civilization collapse. This seems like a very weird thing to gamble with, specially since gambles require long term payoffs. If the economy and politics is a mess and there's general instability, how can you guarantee ability to monetize your bets? No, I think most people are just genuinely not aware, willfully ignorant, don't believe humans could alter the climate, etc. In a way it's good, because it means you can fight it to an extent with information.
- irrational 7y ago
  3) Some people just want to see the world burn. I know people who truly believe in climate change and just don't care about the ramifications.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > 1) Some industries refuse to even consider it because it means they're effectively dead -- coal, oil, and a few other industries. If coal/oil/gas is dead then most of humanity is dead too. Do you realize that coal, oil, gas are responsible for almost all of the world's energy production? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bp_world_energy_consumption_2016.gif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bp_world_energy_consumpti... Not to mention the world's agricultural production is dependent on oil, not just for transportation, but also for petrochemical fertizilers. Also, almost every product ( medicine, electronic, clothes, etc ) have petrochemical derivatives in them. If those fossil fuel industries are dead, then civilization ends and most of humanity dies. > They fuel propaganda because of this There are plenty of propaganda on both sides along with the fearmongering. And the propaganda and fearmongering doesn't help anything. Unless there is some technological breakthrough in energy production, we aren't going to stop using fossil fuels. Much of the world is underdeveloped and looking to industrialize. There are 1.3 billion people without electricity. Can you believe that? https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/world-without-power/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/world-without-... Climate change isn't a political issue. It is a technological one. Europeans aren't going to give up fossil fuels to end their first world lifestyle and destroy their society and starve themselves to death. The chinese are going to use as much fossil fuels needed to reach the first world lifestyle of the europeans. Indians, once they get their act together, are going to follow in china's footsteps. Same goes for ASEAN. And eventually Africa, etc. Can't expect the poor nations to stay poor forever. And of course, we aren't going to give up fossil fuels anytime soon in the US, especially since we just became a fossil fuel energy exporter recently. So given these realities, what do you think the climate change issue is really about? It certainly isn't about fossil fuels or reducing fossil fuels because it's simply not possible anytime soon. So what is it about?
  - darkmighty 7y ago

by euix 7y ago

darkmighty 7y ago

This is too contrived an explanation (for the general climate change denialism), I think. I think there are two facets to it: 1) Some industries refuse to even consider it because it means they're effectively dead -- coal, oil, and a few other industries. They fuel propaganda because of this 2) Sheer ignorance I say because it's very difficult and fragile to try and profit off a genuine catastrophe. We are indeed heading for a disaster (2C warming) even under quite optimistic assumptions about world politics and people accepting climate change and whatnot; if there is not enough action, if some technologies are not developed quickly enough, we are facing genuine catastrophe (I think there's far too much faith in a magical technological solution (rapid carbon capture) in current scenarios) -- 3 or 4C warming, where you start to talk about civilization collapse. This seems like a very weird thing to gamble with, specially since gambles require long term payoffs. If the economy and politics is a mess and there's general instability, how can you guarantee ability to monetize your bets? No, I think most people are just genuinely not aware, willfully ignorant, don't believe humans could alter the climate, etc. In a way it's good, because it means you can fight it to an extent with information.

irrational 7y ago
3) Some people just want to see the world burn. I know people who truly believe in climate change and just don't care about the ramifications.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
> 1) Some industries refuse to even consider it because it means they're effectively dead -- coal, oil, and a few other industries. If coal/oil/gas is dead then most of humanity is dead too. Do you realize that coal, oil, gas are responsible for almost all of the world's energy production? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bp_world_energy_consumption_2016.gif https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bp_world_energy_consumpti... Not to mention the world's agricultural production is dependent on oil, not just for transportation, but also for petrochemical fertizilers. Also, almost every product ( medicine, electronic, clothes, etc ) have petrochemical derivatives in them. If those fossil fuel industries are dead, then civilization ends and most of humanity dies. > They fuel propaganda because of this There are plenty of propaganda on both sides along with the fearmongering. And the propaganda and fearmongering doesn't help anything. Unless there is some technological breakthrough in energy production, we aren't going to stop using fossil fuels. Much of the world is underdeveloped and looking to industrialize. There are 1.3 billion people without electricity. Can you believe that? https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/world-without-power/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/world-without-... Climate change isn't a political issue. It is a technological one. Europeans aren't going to give up fossil fuels to end their first world lifestyle and destroy their society and starve themselves to death. The chinese are going to use as much fossil fuels needed to reach the first world lifestyle of the europeans. Indians, once they get their act together, are going to follow in china's footsteps. Same goes for ASEAN. And eventually Africa, etc. Can't expect the poor nations to stay poor forever. And of course, we aren't going to give up fossil fuels anytime soon in the US, especially since we just became a fossil fuel energy exporter recently. So given these realities, what do you think the climate change issue is really about? It certainly isn't about fossil fuels or reducing fossil fuels because it's simply not possible anytime soon. So what is it about?
- darkmighty 7y ago