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The post talks about Google supposedly persecuting LGBTQ employees for speaking up. But the linked articles only talk about them (possibly) getting retaliated a

The post talks about Google supposedly persecuting LGBTQ employees for speaking up. But the linked articles only talk about them (possibly) getting retaliated against for protesting other issues, like border security or sexual harassment. As an LGBT person (who does her fair share of activism), I'm not clear what the LGBTQ angle is here other than if the people involved happened to be LGBTQ. It seems like even if they are being retaliated against for their activism, it's not LGBTQ activism. Did I miss something?

aaomidi 7y ago
LGBTQ+ activism doesn't just involve fighting for rights for people who fall within those labels. It has evolved onto fighting for rights of EVERYONE who is currently being harrassed, targetted, and discriminate against. It's activism for human rights for everyone. Not every LGBTQ+ activist agrees with this evolution, but a large group do. I'm personally in that group.
- maps 7y ago
  Yeah that is pretty disgusting. By doing this, it steals a label with a 'fairly' clear meaning, agenda, and history to prop up any old complaint. This is beyond disingenuous and actually will end up causing more harm to LGBT issues in the future.
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    Okay thank you for your input. We'll continue to fight for the rights of everyone who is being discriminated against. You should learn more about intersectional activism :)
    - judge2020 7y ago
      Please do, but doing so in the name of LGBTQ+ and not simply as a fellow human/coworker is hurting the label, as @maps said.
      - aaomidi 7y ago
        Learn about intersectionality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
        9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
        You're linking literally pseudoscientific misinformation. Do better!
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
        They're not going to stop; they actually think they're doing good for the oppressed. What's needed to stop them is for the people of the groups they're purportedly standing up for to repudiate them, loudly, publically, and en masse.
- jshevek 7y ago
  It's absurd to claim that LGBTQ+ activism is about fighting for the rights of everyone who is harrassed, targeted, and discriminated against. The set of groups has expanded, but there are still groups being left out.
- solipsism 7y ago
  It has evolved onto fighting for rights of EVERYONE who is currently being harrassed, targetted, and discriminate against. It's activism for human rights for everyone. How is that different from just saying former LGBT+ activists have decided they need to broaden their focus to more general human rights activism? This is like saying "Vegetarianism doesn't just involve eating vegetables. A lot of vegetarians have started eating meat."
- yew 7y ago
  Meh. Tell that to the "cis gays" getting hate on Twitter. I had enough "it's for your own good" before I was old enough to stop going to church.
- hnewsshadowbans 7y ago
  So you are okay with this guy dishonestly connecting Google disciplining this workers for an unrelated issue to LGBT rights? Would you be okay with a story from FoxNews saying Dems has a policy of targeting black people because they happened to throw out a black activist disrupting their meeting in the name of gun rights?
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
I think the claim is that Google is more willing to dismiss LGBTQ employees for these issues than others. However, it's also plausible that LGBTQ employees are more accustomed to having to fight for their rights and hence have trended to be amongst the "loudest" complainants?
- ardit33 7y ago
  I don't know about google, and can't say about direct experience, but almost every tech company I have worked, LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least.... even amazon, was pretty equal about minorities and LGBTQ folks as they treated everyone equally crap....
  - cbanek 7y ago
    > LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least.... As a minority LGBTQ person, let me say it's almost never in a visible way, but trust me, it is there. It's usually called something different, or dressed up as something else, just like how it is treated in political discourse. The fact that it's not obvious only makes it worse and more unnerving for the gaslit target.
    - ci5er 7y ago
      As a sometimes engineering manager (I generally prefer to be a staffy, you know, doing analyst functions for the CEO, etc.), this is interesting to me. Can you give me any ideas on what I should be on the look-out for, in terms of behavior, among the team-mates? I "get" that it's not visible (sort of), but I don't get how to be on guard for it, prevent it or deal with it if we can't see it. How does a manager see the signs of it, somehow, well enough, to deal with it?
      - cbanek 7y ago
        Yeah, it's tricky to see for sure. I don't pretend to have all or even some of the answers here, but since you asked, and it's a great question, I'll take a stab at it. First, I'd just make sure that people are happy. If people are honestly happy and enjoying their job, they probably aren't having a problem. Talk to them and figure it out is the most direct way. Indirect ways I would say include: Social dynamics: Does a team try to exclude a person from meetings, social discussions at work, social activities, etc? Is one person always alone? This is a bit fuzzier since it's about association, and you can't force people to be friends, but it can show a lot about team cohesion. Work dynamics: I've worked with people who I was almost sure had it out for me, and they would purposefully drag their feet doing work or responding to issues. While this should reflect poorly on the person sandbagging, it's more common that the recipient is blamed for "not getting enough done." Especially with ramping up or helping out, by excluding certain members of the team, coworkers can basically set that person up to fail, while technically doing nothing wrong. Reviews: Also look out for when people are punished or otherwise told they aren't doing good enough. The measuring stick for this can change based on the person being measured. Opportunity. Are minority team members given the same opportunities for leadership and growth? Or does a team always give the best work to one or two people that the boss likes, leaving everyone else to clean up the mess? It's hard to prove that you can do the job if they won't let you. This seems to happen a lot in my experience.
kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
You didn't miss anything. These people were fired for independent troublemaking. The fact that they were LGBTQ is a confounding variable that correlates with / causes activist tendencies.
hnewsshadowbans 7y ago
The angle is virtue signaling and potstirring. Its low hanging fruit to earn plaudits and make it seem like you're doing something. In reality like you said there is nothing to indicate the employees were fired for being gay or trans or whatever. The later reference to 'concentration camps' drives home the kind of person this guy is. Gay and trans people should be disgusted this person is using them in such a dishonest way to score points.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
  That is the unfortunate reality of a lot of activism today. I wonder if this behavior only serves to cause general resentment in the community against LGBTQ folks because the biggest loudmouths drag down the discourse.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

aaomidi 7y ago

LGBTQ+ activism doesn't just involve fighting for rights for people who fall within those labels. It has evolved onto fighting for rights of EVERYONE who is currently being harrassed, targetted, and discriminate against. It's activism for human rights for everyone. Not every LGBTQ+ activist agrees with this evolution, but a large group do. I'm personally in that group.

maps 7y ago
Yeah that is pretty disgusting. By doing this, it steals a label with a 'fairly' clear meaning, agenda, and history to prop up any old complaint. This is beyond disingenuous and actually will end up causing more harm to LGBT issues in the future.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Okay thank you for your input. We'll continue to fight for the rights of everyone who is being discriminated against. You should learn more about intersectional activism :)
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Please do, but doing so in the name of LGBTQ+ and not simply as a fellow human/coworker is hurting the label, as @maps said.
    - aaomidi 7y ago
      Learn about intersectionality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
      - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
        You're linking literally pseudoscientific misinformation. Do better!
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
      They're not going to stop; they actually think they're doing good for the oppressed. What's needed to stop them is for the people of the groups they're purportedly standing up for to repudiate them, loudly, publically, and en masse.
jshevek 7y ago
It's absurd to claim that LGBTQ+ activism is about fighting for the rights of everyone who is harrassed, targeted, and discriminated against. The set of groups has expanded, but there are still groups being left out.
solipsism 7y ago
It has evolved onto fighting for rights of EVERYONE who is currently being harrassed, targetted, and discriminate against. It's activism for human rights for everyone. How is that different from just saying former LGBT+ activists have decided they need to broaden their focus to more general human rights activism? This is like saying "Vegetarianism doesn't just involve eating vegetables. A lot of vegetarians have started eating meat."
yew 7y ago
Meh. Tell that to the "cis gays" getting hate on Twitter. I had enough "it's for your own good" before I was old enough to stop going to church.
hnewsshadowbans 7y ago
So you are okay with this guy dishonestly connecting Google disciplining this workers for an unrelated issue to LGBT rights? Would you be okay with a story from FoxNews saying Dems has a policy of targeting black people because they happened to throw out a black activist disrupting their meeting in the name of gun rights?

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

I think the claim is that Google is more willing to dismiss LGBTQ employees for these issues than others. However, it's also plausible that LGBTQ employees are more accustomed to having to fight for their rights and hence have trended to be amongst the "loudest" complainants?

ardit33 7y ago
I don't know about google, and can't say about direct experience, but almost every tech company I have worked, LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least.... even amazon, was pretty equal about minorities and LGBTQ folks as they treated everyone equally crap....
- cbanek 7y ago
  > LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least.... As a minority LGBTQ person, let me say it's almost never in a visible way, but trust me, it is there. It's usually called something different, or dressed up as something else, just like how it is treated in political discourse. The fact that it's not obvious only makes it worse and more unnerving for the gaslit target.
  - ci5er 7y ago
    As a sometimes engineering manager (I generally prefer to be a staffy, you know, doing analyst functions for the CEO, etc.), this is interesting to me. Can you give me any ideas on what I should be on the look-out for, in terms of behavior, among the team-mates? I "get" that it's not visible (sort of), but I don't get how to be on guard for it, prevent it or deal with it if we can't see it. How does a manager see the signs of it, somehow, well enough, to deal with it?
    - cbanek 7y ago
      Yeah, it's tricky to see for sure. I don't pretend to have all or even some of the answers here, but since you asked, and it's a great question, I'll take a stab at it. First, I'd just make sure that people are happy. If people are honestly happy and enjoying their job, they probably aren't having a problem. Talk to them and figure it out is the most direct way. Indirect ways I would say include: Social dynamics: Does a team try to exclude a person from meetings, social discussions at work, social activities, etc? Is one person always alone? This is a bit fuzzier since it's about association, and you can't force people to be friends, but it can show a lot about team cohesion. Work dynamics: I've worked with people who I was almost sure had it out for me, and they would purposefully drag their feet doing work or responding to issues. While this should reflect poorly on the person sandbagging, it's more common that the recipient is blamed for "not getting enough done." Especially with ramping up or helping out, by excluding certain members of the team, coworkers can basically set that person up to fail, while technically doing nothing wrong. Reviews: Also look out for when people are punished or otherwise told they aren't doing good enough. The measuring stick for this can change based on the person being measured. Opportunity. Are minority team members given the same opportunities for leadership and growth? Or does a team always give the best work to one or two people that the boss likes, leaving everyone else to clean up the mess? It's hard to prove that you can do the job if they won't let you. This seems to happen a lot in my experience.

kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago

You didn't miss anything. These people were fired for independent troublemaking. The fact that they were LGBTQ is a confounding variable that correlates with / causes activist tendencies.

hnewsshadowbans 7y ago

The angle is virtue signaling and potstirring. Its low hanging fruit to earn plaudits and make it seem like you're doing something. In reality like you said there is nothing to indicate the employees were fired for being gay or trans or whatever. The later reference to 'concentration camps' drives home the kind of person this guy is. Gay and trans people should be disgusted this person is using them in such a dishonest way to score points.

kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
That is the unfortunate reality of a lot of activism today. I wonder if this behavior only serves to cause general resentment in the community against LGBTQ folks because the biggest loudmouths drag down the discourse.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]