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If you are a tinkerer who is upset by Tesla's control over the software in your vehicle, you can disconnect the data connection in the car. You purchased the c

by slg 7y ago

If you are a tinkerer who is upset by Tesla's control over the software in your vehicle, you can disconnect the data connection in the car. You purchased the car and you can use the car how you see fit. You did not purchase a free, unrestricted, and perpetual license to use Tesla services. It is no different than purchasing an Apple or Android phone and having to abide by Apple's or Google's ToS to get the most out of the device.

Krasnol 7y ago
How far is the modding scene there? Can you activate functions (which don't need an online connection obviously) if you've cut the cord? Are people actually meddling with it?
gnicholas 7y ago
Would this void the warranty? I assume if the vehicle malfunctioned in any way, or caused an accident, Tesla would say it was your fault for disconnecting. Of course, one could make the argument that since they sometimes push out updates that have bugs, it's actually safer to drive the car with a static feature set that the driver is familiar with.
- slg 7y ago
  It is unclear whether this voids the warranty. Tesla, like other manufacturers, leaves open the possibility of voiding a warranty for improper repairs, but I'm not aware of any cases in which Tesla has actually gone that route. Also regarding your last point, OTA updates can also provide added safety. For example, there have been similar software issues with the anti-lock brakes for both Teslas and Toyotas. Tesla was able to fix that problem and push out the updates in a few days. Toyota also had a quick fix, but actually deploying the update to cars required a recall and for the update to be manually installed by a technician. That extra barrier to getting the update unquestionably resulted in unsafe cars being on the road much longer than if OTA updates were possible.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    There is no doubt that some of the OTA updates increase vehicle safety. I was just pointing out that one could make an argument that it is not anti-safety to prevent updates from being applied. It's just a matter of what is more important: the new things being added, or having a better understanding of how the vehicle will consistently behave.
- slipheen 7y ago
  The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal to void the warranty for modifying your vehicle. They would need to prove that failure was a direct result of your modification.
  - almost_usual 7y ago
    It won’t void the warranty but most automaker shops won’t touch anything you’ve modified. So the warranty is pretty much void for said modified parts. Toyota won’t touch my modified Tacoma suspension and I’m fine with it. They are more than willing to fix anything else.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
They sell something that feels like a free, unrestricted, perpetual license to use the services "that come with the car". But when you buy a car it's natural to think that it's yours in full, as much as a banana you traded for a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich in the lunchroom was unequivocally yours. I agree that legally it's probably no different than any other modern TOS or EULA: you own nothing, you have no rights, the company can do whatever they feel like and change those rules at any time. I hate the amoral, greed-driven, power-differential-enabled lack of true ownership that these agreements cause. I like the idea of something a simple right to use a Tesla service that lasts as long as the car does. I'd be willing to come to an agreement on where in the ship-of-Theseus debate the car is no longer the car, so you don't have vehicles that have been crushed in trash compactor being stripped for their Supercharger license or SIM card and that Supercharger connector/key installed on a Leaf or SIM card installed in a phone, and you don't have used, serviceable vehicles sold without those licenses. I'd prefer open to the idea that those rights are separate from the vehicle, purchased by an individual, able to be sold by an individual. I wonder whether my son will think he owns his car or the software that runs on his computer 30 years from now, or whether he'll just be subscribed to services that provide a temporary, revocable, non-transferable right to everything he uses.
- slg 7y ago
  To be clear, I'm not judging anyone with those beliefs. I just think people should be clear about this situation. You own your Tesla just as much as you own any car. Probably the second most important distinguishing factor of Teslas (behind just being EVs) is the connected services that Tesla provides that no other automaker is even close to providing. I don't think it is unreasonable that using those services comes with a ToS. I would much rather my car automatically keep my maps and GPS updated rather than having to schedule an appointment for service at a dealer and pay to get those updates which is how some other auto manufacturers handle the process. You are free to disagree and to vote with your wallet by not buying a Tesla.
syshum 7y ago
Apple's Authoritarian control over their products is why I have never and will never own an Apple product, Google is starting to approach my breaking point as well. I have used LineageOS devices in the past for this reason. I will not own a Tesla Product for this reason either

by slg 7y ago

Krasnol 7y ago

How far is the modding scene there? Can you activate functions (which don't need an online connection obviously) if you've cut the cord? Are people actually meddling with it?

gnicholas 7y ago

Would this void the warranty? I assume if the vehicle malfunctioned in any way, or caused an accident, Tesla would say it was your fault for disconnecting. Of course, one could make the argument that since they sometimes push out updates that have bugs, it's actually safer to drive the car with a static feature set that the driver is familiar with.

slg 7y ago
It is unclear whether this voids the warranty. Tesla, like other manufacturers, leaves open the possibility of voiding a warranty for improper repairs, but I'm not aware of any cases in which Tesla has actually gone that route. Also regarding your last point, OTA updates can also provide added safety. For example, there have been similar software issues with the anti-lock brakes for both Teslas and Toyotas. Tesla was able to fix that problem and push out the updates in a few days. Toyota also had a quick fix, but actually deploying the update to cars required a recall and for the update to be manually installed by a technician. That extra barrier to getting the update unquestionably resulted in unsafe cars being on the road much longer than if OTA updates were possible.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  There is no doubt that some of the OTA updates increase vehicle safety. I was just pointing out that one could make an argument that it is not anti-safety to prevent updates from being applied. It's just a matter of what is more important: the new things being added, or having a better understanding of how the vehicle will consistently behave.
slipheen 7y ago
The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal to void the warranty for modifying your vehicle. They would need to prove that failure was a direct result of your modification.
- almost_usual 7y ago
  It won’t void the warranty but most automaker shops won’t touch anything you’ve modified. So the warranty is pretty much void for said modified parts. Toyota won’t touch my modified Tacoma suspension and I’m fine with it. They are more than willing to fix anything else.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago

They sell something that feels like a free, unrestricted, perpetual license to use the services "that come with the car". But when you buy a car it's natural to think that it's yours in full, as much as a banana you traded for a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich in the lunchroom was unequivocally yours. I agree that legally it's probably no different than any other modern TOS or EULA: you own nothing, you have no rights, the company can do whatever they feel like and change those rules at any time. I hate the amoral, greed-driven, power-differential-enabled lack of true ownership that these agreements cause. I like the idea of something a simple right to use a Tesla service that lasts as long as the car does. I'd be willing to come to an agreement on where in the ship-of-Theseus debate the car is no longer the car, so you don't have vehicles that have been crushed in trash compactor being stripped for their Supercharger license or SIM card and that Supercharger connector/key installed on a Leaf or SIM card installed in a phone, and you don't have used, serviceable vehicles sold without those licenses. I'd prefer open to the idea that those rights are separate from the vehicle, purchased by an individual, able to be sold by an individual. I wonder whether my son will think he owns his car or the software that runs on his computer 30 years from now, or whether he'll just be subscribed to services that provide a temporary, revocable, non-transferable right to everything he uses.

slg 7y ago
To be clear, I'm not judging anyone with those beliefs. I just think people should be clear about this situation. You own your Tesla just as much as you own any car. Probably the second most important distinguishing factor of Teslas (behind just being EVs) is the connected services that Tesla provides that no other automaker is even close to providing. I don't think it is unreasonable that using those services comes with a ToS. I would much rather my car automatically keep my maps and GPS updated rather than having to schedule an appointment for service at a dealer and pay to get those updates which is how some other auto manufacturers handle the process. You are free to disagree and to vote with your wallet by not buying a Tesla.

syshum 7y ago

Apple's Authoritarian control over their products is why I have never and will never own an Apple product, Google is starting to approach my breaking point as well. I have used LineageOS devices in the past for this reason. I will not own a Tesla Product for this reason either