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I mean, if you buy a Tesla you know you dont own a car. You are just licensing it. I refuse to support a company that makes me sign a f*ing gag order for the pr

I mean, if you buy a Tesla you know you dont own a car. You are just licensing it. I refuse to support a company that makes me sign a f*ing gag order for the privilege of their car. https://www.slashgear.com/tesla-on-offensive-against-nhtsa-gag-order-allegations-10443577/ https://www.slashgear.com/tesla-on-offensive-against-nhtsa-g... Screw Tesla and the Authoritarian Technocratic hell they want to enforce on the automotive industry. I cannot fathom how someone can be a tinkerer of things and support a company that continues to barely support things like the magnuson moss warranty act. Companies like Tesla prove we NEED right to repair. I am genuinely curious how the community feels about Tesla's hostility to third party repair and open documentation.

badtooling 7y ago
Sent from my iPhone?
- oiasdjfoiasd 7y ago
  LOL
throwawaypa123 7y ago
What happens if someone tries to fix the car and hurts themselves and now tesla enabled that behavior. Safety first.
- thisisnico 7y ago
  Same exact thing with ANY other automaker.
- overgard 7y ago
  Really? Are you a child that can't handle tools? I'll make sure nobody hands you scissors.
  - njarboe 7y ago
    Poe's law in action[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
    - overgard 7y ago
      Well shoot, my sarcasm detector was off there. But I appreciate you pointing out my mistake instead of just downvoting me. Thanks (genuinely)
ricefield 7y ago
I think I'm fine with it, as long as they continue to sell best-in-class vehicles and provide quality service. Third-party repair and open documentation are nice, but not must-haves for me.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  That is the point: do they sell the car to you, license or rent it? It does not look at all that they sell it.
  - ricefield 7y ago
    As long as I get to drive it, the distinction isn't very material to me. But I guess I'm not the type to work a lot on my car.
    - snoshy 7y ago
      As the case in the article shows, this hurts the resale value of the car. If I spend $10-12k on software upgrades for a vehicle, and can't recover any of that money upon resale, I would call that a material distinction.
      - derision 7y ago
        Every other car loses a high double-digit percentage of it's value the second you drive it off the lot. Resale value of cars doesn't seem to impact much in the consumer's mind
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        You can resell the software upgrades you bought. This article talks about a case where the dealer (according to Tesla) had not bought the software.
        Spooky23 7y ago
        Does the feature get attached to the car, or is it associated with the first human licensee? If the car had the license, and the car was returned and transferred to a third party dealer. Then the OEM decided that the entitlement no longer existed. I'm not aware of any other scenario where a core component of a car isn't linked to the car. If Tesla didn't fuck up, they are applying Microsoft/Oracle software license terms to the car.
slg 7y ago
If you are a tinkerer who is upset by Tesla's control over the software in your vehicle, you can disconnect the data connection in the car. You purchased the car and you can use the car how you see fit. You did not purchase a free, unrestricted, and perpetual license to use Tesla services. It is no different than purchasing an Apple or Android phone and having to abide by Apple's or Google's ToS to get the most out of the device.
- Krasnol 7y ago
  How far is the modding scene there? Can you activate functions (which don't need an online connection obviously) if you've cut the cord? Are people actually meddling with it?
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Would this void the warranty? I assume if the vehicle malfunctioned in any way, or caused an accident, Tesla would say it was your fault for disconnecting. Of course, one could make the argument that since they sometimes push out updates that have bugs, it's actually safer to drive the car with a static feature set that the driver is familiar with.
  - slg 7y ago
    It is unclear whether this voids the warranty. Tesla, like other manufacturers, leaves open the possibility of voiding a warranty for improper repairs, but I'm not aware of any cases in which Tesla has actually gone that route. Also regarding your last point, OTA updates can also provide added safety. For example, there have been similar software issues with the anti-lock brakes for both Teslas and Toyotas. Tesla was able to fix that problem and push out the updates in a few days. Toyota also had a quick fix, but actually deploying the update to cars required a recall and for the update to be manually installed by a technician. That extra barrier to getting the update unquestionably resulted in unsafe cars being on the road much longer than if OTA updates were possible.
    - gnicholas 7y ago

badtooling 7y ago

Sent from my iPhone?

oiasdjfoiasd 7y ago
LOL

throwawaypa123 7y ago

What happens if someone tries to fix the car and hurts themselves and now tesla enabled that behavior. Safety first.

thisisnico 7y ago
Same exact thing with ANY other automaker.
overgard 7y ago
Really? Are you a child that can't handle tools? I'll make sure nobody hands you scissors.
- njarboe 7y ago
  Poe's law in action[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
  - overgard 7y ago
    Well shoot, my sarcasm detector was off there. But I appreciate you pointing out my mistake instead of just downvoting me. Thanks (genuinely)

ricefield 7y ago

I think I'm fine with it, as long as they continue to sell best-in-class vehicles and provide quality service. Third-party repair and open documentation are nice, but not must-haves for me.

AdrianB1 7y ago
That is the point: do they sell the car to you, license or rent it? It does not look at all that they sell it.
- ricefield 7y ago
  As long as I get to drive it, the distinction isn't very material to me. But I guess I'm not the type to work a lot on my car.
  - snoshy 7y ago
    As the case in the article shows, this hurts the resale value of the car. If I spend $10-12k on software upgrades for a vehicle, and can't recover any of that money upon resale, I would call that a material distinction.
    - derision 7y ago
      Every other car loses a high double-digit percentage of it's value the second you drive it off the lot. Resale value of cars doesn't seem to impact much in the consumer's mind
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      You can resell the software upgrades you bought. This article talks about a case where the dealer (according to Tesla) had not bought the software.
      - Spooky23 7y ago
        Does the feature get attached to the car, or is it associated with the first human licensee? If the car had the license, and the car was returned and transferred to a third party dealer. Then the OEM decided that the entitlement no longer existed. I'm not aware of any other scenario where a core component of a car isn't linked to the car. If Tesla didn't fuck up, they are applying Microsoft/Oracle software license terms to the car.

slg 7y ago

If you are a tinkerer who is upset by Tesla's control over the software in your vehicle, you can disconnect the data connection in the car. You purchased the car and you can use the car how you see fit. You did not purchase a free, unrestricted, and perpetual license to use Tesla services. It is no different than purchasing an Apple or Android phone and having to abide by Apple's or Google's ToS to get the most out of the device.

Krasnol 7y ago
How far is the modding scene there? Can you activate functions (which don't need an online connection obviously) if you've cut the cord? Are people actually meddling with it?
gnicholas 7y ago
Would this void the warranty? I assume if the vehicle malfunctioned in any way, or caused an accident, Tesla would say it was your fault for disconnecting. Of course, one could make the argument that since they sometimes push out updates that have bugs, it's actually safer to drive the car with a static feature set that the driver is familiar with.
- slg 7y ago
  It is unclear whether this voids the warranty. Tesla, like other manufacturers, leaves open the possibility of voiding a warranty for improper repairs, but I'm not aware of any cases in which Tesla has actually gone that route. Also regarding your last point, OTA updates can also provide added safety. For example, there have been similar software issues with the anti-lock brakes for both Teslas and Toyotas. Tesla was able to fix that problem and push out the updates in a few days. Toyota also had a quick fix, but actually deploying the update to cars required a recall and for the update to be manually installed by a technician. That extra barrier to getting the update unquestionably resulted in unsafe cars being on the road much longer than if OTA updates were possible.
  - gnicholas 7y ago