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Here’s the inside scoop - older vehicles used to be much easier to enable autopilot and other paid features, so many places online sold much cheaper upgrades to

Here’s the inside scoop - older vehicles used to be much easier to enable autopilot and other paid features, so many places online sold much cheaper upgrades to autopilot and FSD. Tesla has a record of all purchases and the factory state of the vehicle. If the software has been illegally activated they are within their rights to disable the upgrade. This has nothing to do with the license being tied to a person, free supercharging is the only thing tied to a user. Think of it as buying a concert ticket - you get to the venue and they tell you it’s counterfeit. Do you blame the venue or the seller? If they had bought the vehicle from Tesla it would have been a very different story. And for the uninformed folks having a cry about disabled supercharging on salvage titles. Supercharging is automatically disabled on all cars when a serious collision is detected. This is to prevent a rapid and massive o rush of charging current flowing into potentially damaged batteries or HV wiring. Supercharging is a massive amount of energy dumped into the vehicle at once, hundreds times more than a regular home outlet, if something is wrong in the car it could start a fire. The majority of salvage titles have had an airbag deployment and this is one of the triggers for disabling supercharging, salvage title or not. Service will inspect the vehicle and if satisfied of the safety will enable charging again. I think it’s a brilliant feature, and very safely focused.

alistairSH 7y ago
The Monroney sticker shows the car was sold new with FSD enabled. Are you claiming the dealership faked the sticker?
- mmcwilliams 7y ago
  I was under the impression that Tesla sold direct and not through dealerships?
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    This car was a lemon, sent back to Tesla, sold via auction to a normal brick-mortar dealer, who then sold to the end consumer. The original Monroney sticker had FSD listed as an included option (just like upgrade wheels, or a tow package on a truck). The car delivered with it installed. The car made it through several changes in ownership (orig buyer -> Tesla -> dealer -> final consumer) with it enabled, as indicated on the original spec list. Nobody other than Tesla ever had any reason to believe the option was not included - because, IN FACT, it was included. Until Tesla decided they wanted to repossess it after the fact. This would be akin to Chevy deciding after sale that the upgrade wheels weren't actually supposed to be installed, and coming to your house in the middle of the day to remove them.
    - mmcwilliams 7y ago
      This is a much clearer timeline than I got from the article and it goes against what the GP seems to be claiming. It's very dubious that a fresh account would be in both threads about this event claiming they have the "inside scoop" and implying that the feature was added "illegally". Very shady.
    - greglindahl 7y ago
      Can you point to the auction paperwork to confirm that Tesla's sales contract with the auction buyer said the car had FSD? It seems to be a critical missing link in the story. To go along with your narrative, it's not hard to imagine that a car sold used might not have the original upgrade wheels, or might have had the tow package removed.
      - alistairSH 7y ago
        That's possible, but according to both the dealer and the eventual owner, both were able to use the features... assuming that's true, the contract is irrelevant - the car was sold with the options included, Tesla doesn't get to disable them after the fact because they screwed up. As noted in other comments, the Monroney only applies to new car sales, so it's not part of this sale other than serving as a piece of information about the original build. A buyer who saw the sticker would reasonably think "oh, this car came with FSD," [tries FSD to confirm], "Yup, has FSD! Cool, it's worth $4000 more to me now."
appleflaxen 7y ago
There is no license agreement by a secondhand buyer. Why should Tesla be permitted to reach into a car I bought from the classifieds, and reconfigured using my own skill (flipping a bit from "disabled" to "enabled")? Consumer protection should be strengthened so that this kind of behavior is illegal.
TheNorthman 7y ago
> Think of it as buying a concert ticket [...] A more appropriate analogy would be if their seats were already reserved and couldn't be resold. The hardware is already there, Tesla is just being (as another poster noted) a "Authoritarian Technocratic hell."
- sodastreamgirl 7y ago
  I mean the hardware to run photoshop is in your computer, so I guess Adobe should just give it away? The hardware runs the passive safety features of the car includes as standard in all vehicles. Forward collision warning, lane departure, emergency braking. It’s not a matter of the autopilot computer only being used for autopilot
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    > I mean the hardware to run photoshop is in your computer, so I guess Adobe should just give it away? Whose fault is that? On multiple occasions, Tesla themselves have said "All vehicles are equipped with all the hardware needed for FSD, it's just a software upgrade". _We_ are not saying the hardware is/should be free (obviously there was a cost at some point), _Tesla_ is saying it's in the baseline cost.
crmrc114 7y ago
Very safety focused- Sure, now for the open market part. How about we try to find a third party shop that has access to repair and re-enable that Tesla's Supercharger mode? Across the USA there are shops working on exotic cars, hybrid vehicles and full EV's. You dont hear about Nissan all electrics or BMW all electrics exploding all over the place. Its insane to claim Tesla's are so advanced and so magical that an ASE certified mechanic cant work on them. If FoMoCo or GM did this everyone would claim Antitrust. MS cant force you to use IE, but Tesla, they are the golden boy on wall street and no one is willing to hold them to the same standards as other Automotive manufacturers.
- sodastreamgirl 7y ago
  Tesla has a bunch of certified body shops and they have the correct software to diagnose and modify the vehicle...check your receipts. Same for bmw, and all other exotic cars. Hell even Apple.
  - crmrc114 7y ago
    Tesla has locked down their third party repair options to only where required by law. The deliver the minimum viable product. And since you mention apple https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/02/06/2015209/apples-independent-repair-program-is-invasive-to-shops-and-their-customers-contract-shows https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/02/06/2015209/apples-ind... Since you seem to be under the impression that Teslas are friendly to work on please take a moment and Enjoy this lovely youtuber who spends his time pissing off Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA Also on the apple front: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w
kryptiskt 7y ago
"If the software has been illegally activated they are within their rights to disable the upgrade." But the article says that the features were enabled when Tesla sold the car to the dealer at the auction. If Tesla sells the car with the feature, however it has been activated, then it behooves them to not remove it. Otherwise they are making their listing of the car fraudulent.
resoluteteeth 7y ago
> Do you blame the venue or the seller? If they had bought the vehicle from Tesla it would have been a very different story. The article states the following: > The dealer bought the car a month earlier from a Tesla auction, with both “Enhanced Autopilot” and “Full Self Driving Mode” features intact, according to Jalopnik, which reviewed documents related to the car’s ownership and sale. Tesla chose to sell the car with these features enabled and then disabled them after the sale.
overgard 7y ago
I get what you're saying and I appreciate the insider perspective, but I have to say as a customer the idea that the manufacturer can change my vehicle after I bought it is such a huge no way, red flag kind of thing. Maybe the feature was stolen, or accidentally activated, or whatever, but no part of me is comfortable having a car where Tesla can just turn something off remotely.

alistairSH 7y ago

The Monroney sticker shows the car was sold new with FSD enabled. Are you claiming the dealership faked the sticker?

mmcwilliams 7y ago
I was under the impression that Tesla sold direct and not through dealerships?
- alistairSH 7y ago
  This car was a lemon, sent back to Tesla, sold via auction to a normal brick-mortar dealer, who then sold to the end consumer. The original Monroney sticker had FSD listed as an included option (just like upgrade wheels, or a tow package on a truck). The car delivered with it installed. The car made it through several changes in ownership (orig buyer -> Tesla -> dealer -> final consumer) with it enabled, as indicated on the original spec list. Nobody other than Tesla ever had any reason to believe the option was not included - because, IN FACT, it was included. Until Tesla decided they wanted to repossess it after the fact. This would be akin to Chevy deciding after sale that the upgrade wheels weren't actually supposed to be installed, and coming to your house in the middle of the day to remove them.
  - mmcwilliams 7y ago
    This is a much clearer timeline than I got from the article and it goes against what the GP seems to be claiming. It's very dubious that a fresh account would be in both threads about this event claiming they have the "inside scoop" and implying that the feature was added "illegally". Very shady.
  - greglindahl 7y ago
    Can you point to the auction paperwork to confirm that Tesla's sales contract with the auction buyer said the car had FSD? It seems to be a critical missing link in the story. To go along with your narrative, it's not hard to imagine that a car sold used might not have the original upgrade wheels, or might have had the tow package removed.
    - alistairSH 7y ago
      That's possible, but according to both the dealer and the eventual owner, both were able to use the features... assuming that's true, the contract is irrelevant - the car was sold with the options included, Tesla doesn't get to disable them after the fact because they screwed up. As noted in other comments, the Monroney only applies to new car sales, so it's not part of this sale other than serving as a piece of information about the original build. A buyer who saw the sticker would reasonably think "oh, this car came with FSD," [tries FSD to confirm], "Yup, has FSD! Cool, it's worth $4000 more to me now."

appleflaxen 7y ago

There is no license agreement by a secondhand buyer. Why should Tesla be permitted to reach into a car I bought from the classifieds, and reconfigured using my own skill (flipping a bit from "disabled" to "enabled")? Consumer protection should be strengthened so that this kind of behavior is illegal.

TheNorthman 7y ago

> Think of it as buying a concert ticket [...] A more appropriate analogy would be if their seats were already reserved and couldn't be resold. The hardware is already there, Tesla is just being (as another poster noted) a "Authoritarian Technocratic hell."

sodastreamgirl 7y ago
I mean the hardware to run photoshop is in your computer, so I guess Adobe should just give it away? The hardware runs the passive safety features of the car includes as standard in all vehicles. Forward collision warning, lane departure, emergency braking. It’s not a matter of the autopilot computer only being used for autopilot
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > I mean the hardware to run photoshop is in your computer, so I guess Adobe should just give it away? Whose fault is that? On multiple occasions, Tesla themselves have said "All vehicles are equipped with all the hardware needed for FSD, it's just a software upgrade". _We_ are not saying the hardware is/should be free (obviously there was a cost at some point), _Tesla_ is saying it's in the baseline cost.

crmrc114 7y ago

Very safety focused- Sure, now for the open market part. How about we try to find a third party shop that has access to repair and re-enable that Tesla's Supercharger mode? Across the USA there are shops working on exotic cars, hybrid vehicles and full EV's. You dont hear about Nissan all electrics or BMW all electrics exploding all over the place. Its insane to claim Tesla's are so advanced and so magical that an ASE certified mechanic cant work on them. If FoMoCo or GM did this everyone would claim Antitrust. MS cant force you to use IE, but Tesla, they are the golden boy on wall street and no one is willing to hold them to the same standards as other Automotive manufacturers.

sodastreamgirl 7y ago
Tesla has a bunch of certified body shops and they have the correct software to diagnose and modify the vehicle...check your receipts. Same for bmw, and all other exotic cars. Hell even Apple.
- crmrc114 7y ago
  Tesla has locked down their third party repair options to only where required by law. The deliver the minimum viable product. And since you mention apple https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/02/06/2015209/apples-independent-repair-program-is-invasive-to-shops-and-their-customers-contract-shows https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/02/06/2015209/apples-ind... Since you seem to be under the impression that Teslas are friendly to work on please take a moment and Enjoy this lovely youtuber who spends his time pissing off Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA Also on the apple front: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

kryptiskt 7y ago

"If the software has been illegally activated they are within their rights to disable the upgrade." But the article says that the features were enabled when Tesla sold the car to the dealer at the auction. If Tesla sells the car with the feature, however it has been activated, then it behooves them to not remove it. Otherwise they are making their listing of the car fraudulent.

resoluteteeth 7y ago

> Do you blame the venue or the seller? If they had bought the vehicle from Tesla it would have been a very different story. The article states the following: > The dealer bought the car a month earlier from a Tesla auction, with both “Enhanced Autopilot” and “Full Self Driving Mode” features intact, according to Jalopnik, which reviewed documents related to the car’s ownership and sale. Tesla chose to sell the car with these features enabled and then disabled them after the sale.

overgard 7y ago

I get what you're saying and I appreciate the insider perspective, but I have to say as a customer the idea that the manufacturer can change my vehicle after I bought it is such a huge no way, red flag kind of thing. Maybe the feature was stolen, or accidentally activated, or whatever, but no part of me is comfortable having a car where Tesla can just turn something off remotely.