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Completely tangential: The Rosetta Stone / Duolingo style of language learning has never really worked for me; I generally have more success and an easier time

Completely tangential: The Rosetta Stone / Duolingo style of language learning has never really worked for me; I generally have more success and an easier time staying engaged with the "comprehensible input" approach. Are there any open platforms based on this method out there? Maybe something along the lines of LingQ, though perhaps without all the attempts at gamification.

bluGill 7y ago
I think the best approach is a few weeks with a duolingo style learning just so you get SOME grammar and a FEW words. Once you can understanding things then input is best, but if you don't understand input isn't going to do much good. If you can find English [any language you know] subtitles all input is comprehensible and it is best - but also the hardest and most frustrating. If someone could just create a list of of youtube videos with subtitles in my language it would be huge. Doesn't matter if it is a blacksmith explaining how to shape metal, or a knitter showing some pattern, I just need input.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  TBH, I don't even personally like Duolingo-style programs for getting down the base vocabulary, because, while it's a generally more pleasant experience than other options, I find the approach to be relatively slow and inefficient. Here's a video (in French) that I found reflects my own experience quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQ1qRJ2wQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQ1qRJ2wQc In a nutshell, I've got two complaints. First, while flashcarding is wicked efficient (I'd say essential) for review, it's not a particularly good tool for learning things in the first place. And an overly flashcard-oriented approach has real problems with a sort of streetlight effect: You tend to get stuck on what's easiest to illustrate with pictures, which often isn't what's most useful for communicating with others. edit: Also, for what it's worth, the existing research seems to indicate that, while subtitles in our target language can be hugely beneficial, subtitles in a language you already speak actually inhibit language acquisition: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0007785 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... (There was another study with Brazilian English language learners that I found more compelling, but I'm unable to find it right now.)
  - bluGill 7y ago
    The point is what works depends on where you are. If you need a new language getting that first 100 (1000?) words is important to do fast, and it doesn't matter too much which words you get. Then you need to hear the real language, and subtitles help you understand. As soon as you start to understand something though you need to switch them off (or to the target language).
    - mumblemumble 7y ago
      It also depends, perhaps, on the method you're using. If you're trying to a method based on comprehensible input, then the point of contention would be that any materials that you can't understand without a translation are still too advanced for you, and you'll learn more efficiently if you instead seek materials that you really can comprehend. That's where I like LingQ so much, at least in principle: It's theoretically a clearinghouse where you can find lots and lots of these kinds of materials for learning. (The truth is, it can be a bit difficult to sift through.)
- mnadkvlb 7y ago
  I found some pretty useful courses on udemy. Most of the time u can find them on a good discount. Usually its like a class recording. Your milage may vary depending on your learning style

bluGill 7y ago

I think the best approach is a few weeks with a duolingo style learning just so you get SOME grammar and a FEW words. Once you can understanding things then input is best, but if you don't understand input isn't going to do much good. If you can find English [any language you know] subtitles all input is comprehensible and it is best - but also the hardest and most frustrating. If someone could just create a list of of youtube videos with subtitles in my language it would be huge. Doesn't matter if it is a blacksmith explaining how to shape metal, or a knitter showing some pattern, I just need input.

mumblemumble 7y ago
TBH, I don't even personally like Duolingo-style programs for getting down the base vocabulary, because, while it's a generally more pleasant experience than other options, I find the approach to be relatively slow and inefficient. Here's a video (in French) that I found reflects my own experience quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQ1qRJ2wQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KQ1qRJ2wQc In a nutshell, I've got two complaints. First, while flashcarding is wicked efficient (I'd say essential) for review, it's not a particularly good tool for learning things in the first place. And an overly flashcard-oriented approach has real problems with a sort of streetlight effect: You tend to get stuck on what's easiest to illustrate with pictures, which often isn't what's most useful for communicating with others. edit: Also, for what it's worth, the existing research seems to indicate that, while subtitles in our target language can be hugely beneficial, subtitles in a language you already speak actually inhibit language acquisition: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0007785 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... (There was another study with Brazilian English language learners that I found more compelling, but I'm unable to find it right now.)
- bluGill 7y ago
  The point is what works depends on where you are. If you need a new language getting that first 100 (1000?) words is important to do fast, and it doesn't matter too much which words you get. Then you need to hear the real language, and subtitles help you understand. As soon as you start to understand something though you need to switch them off (or to the target language).
  - mumblemumble 7y ago
    It also depends, perhaps, on the method you're using. If you're trying to a method based on comprehensible input, then the point of contention would be that any materials that you can't understand without a translation are still too advanced for you, and you'll learn more efficiently if you instead seek materials that you really can comprehend. That's where I like LingQ so much, at least in principle: It's theoretically a clearinghouse where you can find lots and lots of these kinds of materials for learning. (The truth is, it can be a bit difficult to sift through.)
mnadkvlb 7y ago
I found some pretty useful courses on udemy. Most of the time u can find them on a good discount. Usually its like a class recording. Your milage may vary depending on your learning style