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Been using Mac primarily since 2011 and sad to see everything keep declining with Apple's software and hardware quality. When programming an app and its backend

Been using Mac primarily since 2011 and sad to see everything keep declining with Apple's software and hardware quality. When programming an app and its backend with react native/clojure my 2015 Mac Pro gets way too hot and slow. Just built a Ryzen 3600 desktop with 32 gigs of RAM for about 1/4th the price as the cheapest 16 inch Macbook. Windows with WSL2 has been extremely good and I'm satisfied with my development environment. Key things were disabling automatic updates via group policy, setup autohotkey to keep all my MacOS keybindings, use X410 to display emacs and using the new windows terminal. Development is super fast, compilation is fast, git is fast, everything just works. Attempted to switch with WSL1 awhile a year ago or so and while it was okay, I wasn't very happy with it. My mac just sits there now mainly being a coaster until I need to test iOS builds.

mns 7y ago
I think you are underestimating the cost of your setup. There is no way in my opinion that you can build a decent PC with 1/4 price of a MacBook Pro. European prices might be higher, 2699 official price for base 16" (you can actually get it for 2399 from official resellers). But still 675 Eu for a proper setup is impossible. Just the CPU and RAM will cost you a bit over 300. I know you are just making a point, but it is a false statement that people constantly make when discussing prices of Apple hardware and this thing is getting quite annoying. Yes, they are more expensive, but when you look at the exact components, specs, you will find that Dell or Lenovo could be only around 10 to 20% cheaper in best case scenario.
- aquaticsunset 7y ago
  I mean, it's not that outlandish. It's such an apples to oranges comparison but performance for dollar is still in the "build your own desktop" side of the arena, as it's always been. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc
  - sounds 7y ago
    My guess is Naomarik didn't buy a case, power supply, or new SSD.
  - snemvalts 7y ago
    that's a 2 year old CPU
- jstrong 7y ago
  this is not a laptop, or new, but thought relevant: used Dell Precision workstation, 2x 14-core xeons, so total 28 physical cpu cores (also your cpu isn't throttled all day so it can fit inside a tiny box) with 64gb ddr4: $1700 on ebay currently. the computer weighs a lot, and it won't run osx. but as someone forced to work all day at a desk on a heavily-throttled macbook, that looks like a lot of hardware for the money in comparison.
- correct_horse 7y ago
  Are you aware that the most expensive macbook pro costs $5900? A reasonable high-spec config costs $3800.
  - filleduchaos 7y ago
    The original comment said a quarter of the price of the cheapest configuration, so I don't quite see how the price of the most expensive one is relevant.
    - correct_horse 7y ago
      whoops.
- robdachshund 7y ago
  Case 100 Psu 100 Mobo 100 16gb RAM 60 AMD 3600 200 SSD 60 AMD 580 100 Total 720 If you already own a case, psu, storage, gpu, you can upgrade for like $400. You could even get a 1600AF or 2600X for $80 or $140 respectively
- Naomarik 7y ago
  Motherboard, CPU, aftermarket cooler, case, RAM, power supply, 256gb m2 ssd all came to about 2500 AED from a computer store in Dubai after some negotiating. Already had a GPU, SSD, monitor, peripherals from my previous dying computer. On Apple's offical website, the base model 16 inch starts at 9999 AED and selecting 32gb of RAM comes to AED 11,679.00. 1680 to go from 16 to 32 GB of RAM. The total I spent on my 16gb x 2 corsair vengeance LPX 3200 DDR4 RAM was no more than 650 AED. What false claims am I making? You do the math. I've become extremely dissatisfied with Apple's direction and felt frustrated being locked into the MacOS ecosystem because until recently there was no alternative that I was happy with. If they'd just make a new Macbook Pro with sufficient cooling and a normal keyboard I would have been satisfied. I built it to replace my dying 9 year old gaming PC, having absolutely no idea that it would become my primary development machine. I just gave WSL2 a shot with pretty low expectations from my experience with WSL1 and just kept using it. My main point to make was not about just about the hardware itself, but about Windows finally becoming a viable alternative for the work I'm doing.
quantumOctopus 7y ago
I second this. For $2000 I built an absolute monster of a desktop PC. Super fast, never an issue and I use it for everything. I only use my MacBook when I wanna sit on the couch and that's it. Thankfully I got my laptop through work almost for free because it wouldn't have been worth the money.
- jacobcohen11 7y ago
  But how about a comparable laptop?
  - stouset 7y ago
    Yeah, no shit it’s cheaper to put a ton of high TDP components into a massive chassis with nearly limitless cooling. Powerful, portable, cheap. Pick two.
    - vbezhenar 7y ago
      With apple you pick one.
- pram 7y ago
  HN users can't tell the difference between a laptop and a desktop apparently.

mns 7y ago

I think you are underestimating the cost of your setup. There is no way in my opinion that you can build a decent PC with 1/4 price of a MacBook Pro. European prices might be higher, 2699 official price for base 16" (you can actually get it for 2399 from official resellers). But still 675 Eu for a proper setup is impossible. Just the CPU and RAM will cost you a bit over 300. I know you are just making a point, but it is a false statement that people constantly make when discussing prices of Apple hardware and this thing is getting quite annoying. Yes, they are more expensive, but when you look at the exact components, specs, you will find that Dell or Lenovo could be only around 10 to 20% cheaper in best case scenario.

aquaticsunset 7y ago
I mean, it's not that outlandish. It's such an apples to oranges comparison but performance for dollar is still in the "build your own desktop" side of the arena, as it's always been. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc
- sounds 7y ago
  My guess is Naomarik didn't buy a case, power supply, or new SSD.
- snemvalts 7y ago
  that's a 2 year old CPU
jstrong 7y ago
this is not a laptop, or new, but thought relevant: used Dell Precision workstation, 2x 14-core xeons, so total 28 physical cpu cores (also your cpu isn't throttled all day so it can fit inside a tiny box) with 64gb ddr4: $1700 on ebay currently. the computer weighs a lot, and it won't run osx. but as someone forced to work all day at a desk on a heavily-throttled macbook, that looks like a lot of hardware for the money in comparison.
correct_horse 7y ago
Are you aware that the most expensive macbook pro costs $5900? A reasonable high-spec config costs $3800.
- filleduchaos 7y ago
  The original comment said a quarter of the price of the cheapest configuration, so I don't quite see how the price of the most expensive one is relevant.
  - correct_horse 7y ago
    whoops.
robdachshund 7y ago
Case 100 Psu 100 Mobo 100 16gb RAM 60 AMD 3600 200 SSD 60 AMD 580 100 Total 720 If you already own a case, psu, storage, gpu, you can upgrade for like $400. You could even get a 1600AF or 2600X for $80 or $140 respectively
Naomarik 7y ago
Motherboard, CPU, aftermarket cooler, case, RAM, power supply, 256gb m2 ssd all came to about 2500 AED from a computer store in Dubai after some negotiating. Already had a GPU, SSD, monitor, peripherals from my previous dying computer. On Apple's offical website, the base model 16 inch starts at 9999 AED and selecting 32gb of RAM comes to AED 11,679.00. 1680 to go from 16 to 32 GB of RAM. The total I spent on my 16gb x 2 corsair vengeance LPX 3200 DDR4 RAM was no more than 650 AED. What false claims am I making? You do the math. I've become extremely dissatisfied with Apple's direction and felt frustrated being locked into the MacOS ecosystem because until recently there was no alternative that I was happy with. If they'd just make a new Macbook Pro with sufficient cooling and a normal keyboard I would have been satisfied. I built it to replace my dying 9 year old gaming PC, having absolutely no idea that it would become my primary development machine. I just gave WSL2 a shot with pretty low expectations from my experience with WSL1 and just kept using it. My main point to make was not about just about the hardware itself, but about Windows finally becoming a viable alternative for the work I'm doing.

quantumOctopus 7y ago

I second this. For $2000 I built an absolute monster of a desktop PC. Super fast, never an issue and I use it for everything. I only use my MacBook when I wanna sit on the couch and that's it. Thankfully I got my laptop through work almost for free because it wouldn't have been worth the money.

jacobcohen11 7y ago
But how about a comparable laptop?
- stouset 7y ago
  Yeah, no shit it’s cheaper to put a ton of high TDP components into a massive chassis with nearly limitless cooling. Powerful, portable, cheap. Pick two.
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    With apple you pick one.
pram 7y ago
HN users can't tell the difference between a laptop and a desktop apparently.