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> owning a Tesla one of my medium-term life goals for the environmental benefits Sorry to jump in but just in case keep in mind that pushing an old ICE car has

> owning a Tesla one of my medium-term life goals for the environmental benefits Sorry to jump in but just in case keep in mind that pushing an old ICE car has usually a lesser impact than buying a new one, it can take years until the difference in consumption cover the impact of the building process and the materials extraction and transport.

systemtest 7y ago
The best option for the environment would be going without a car at all, like many people in Europe do. Unfortunately people have created environments and societies where they are chained to car ownership.
- SirLJ 7y ago
  The best would be to walk barefoot everywhere... naked or covered with dry leafs...
  - michaelt 7y ago
    I see that as more of a long-term life goal.
    - SirLJ 7y ago
      Yes Sir :-)
- tarsinge 7y ago
  In Europe in dense cities. In France near Paris for example you can clearly see the distinction when you go further in the countryside[1]. Anecdotical but I know very few people under 40 who own a car in Paris: [1] % of families having at least 1 car, 2012. Zoom on big cities (Paris, Lyon, Marseille, Bordeaux...) to see the difference: http://map.datafrance.info/logement?coords.lat=48.87329637017783&coords.lng=2.22747802734375&d.d1.id=menages-ayant-au-moins-une-voiture&d.d1.gr=commune&d.d1.y=2012&d.d1.gp=part-des-menages-disposant-d-au-moins-une-voiture&d.d1.on=1&d.d1.slug=d1&zoom=11 http://map.datafrance.info/logement?coords.lat=48.8732963701...
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > The best option for the environment would be going without a car at all Indeed. This is what I do (in the US). The second-best option for the environment is to buy a used car. Environmentally speaking, a used ICE car beats a new electric one.
  - kmonsen 7y ago
    US is not really saying enough. I live with my gf in NYC and we had no need for a car. If I got one for free I would have tried to sell it as soon as possible. Now we live in bay area suburbs with a dog, and one car is absolutely needed if you can afford it. If we had kids it would have been almost impossible without a car.
lordlic 7y ago
The real solution, at least in metro areas, is using public transport instead of driving. And that is another reason not to buy a Tesla, because of the Musk empire's ongoing crusade against public transportation. Dollars spent on Teslas are dollars available for advocating/subsidizing Loop-type and Boring Company projects that drain the public coffers for transportation infrastructure. I'm sure different people have different opinions on ethically how the anti-public-transport conflict of interest stacks up against the good done by making electric vehicles sexy, but for me they approximately cancel out and there's little virtue in buying a Tesla instead of a very efficient ICE or hybrid.
- carlmr 7y ago
  That's what I always say, if you want to be eco and you want to drive electric, by an electric bike. They have tiny batteries compared to electric cars and thus an almost negligible impact in comparison, enough range for 90% of your commuting needs, can keep you moderately fit, and you still have enough money left to drive your ICE for longer stretches.
  - chongli 7y ago
    That’s not a very attractive option for those of us here in the north. Being buried in snow, slush, and ice for six months of the year makes biking very unattractive.
    - carlmr 7y ago
      I live in Germany, and except for the occasional snow I find it easy to ride a bike most of the year. And the countries further north I understand, but then those are a very small part of the world population, so I don't think the impact is that high, even if they drive ICE.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      I live in Utah, and we're known for snow, yet the bike paths are clear most of the year. I bike most of the time, and honestly, I prefer biking in winter to the summer because it's easier to layer up than cool down. When it snows, I take mass transit because I hate driving or cycling in the snow. I own a hybrid, which is a nice compromise between electric and ICE. I can go on long car trips without worrying about recharge stations and I save a ton on gas the rest of the time. I mostly use our car for shopping and family trips, and it often goes days without being used. My bike currently isn't an ebike, but I'm considering getting a conversion kit, which is way more powerful than the ebikes available in stores (the store models need to follow the law, aftermarket parts leave that up to the user).

systemtest 7y ago

The best option for the environment would be going without a car at all, like many people in Europe do. Unfortunately people have created environments and societies where they are chained to car ownership.

SirLJ 7y ago
The best would be to walk barefoot everywhere... naked or covered with dry leafs...
- michaelt 7y ago
  I see that as more of a long-term life goal.
  - SirLJ 7y ago
    Yes Sir :-)
tarsinge 7y ago
In Europe in dense cities. In France near Paris for example you can clearly see the distinction when you go further in the countryside[1]. Anecdotical but I know very few people under 40 who own a car in Paris: [1] % of families having at least 1 car, 2012. Zoom on big cities (Paris, Lyon, Marseille, Bordeaux...) to see the difference: http://map.datafrance.info/logement?coords.lat=48.87329637017783&coords.lng=2.22747802734375&d.d1.id=menages-ayant-au-moins-une-voiture&d.d1.gr=commune&d.d1.y=2012&d.d1.gp=part-des-menages-disposant-d-au-moins-une-voiture&d.d1.on=1&d.d1.slug=d1&zoom=11 http://map.datafrance.info/logement?coords.lat=48.8732963701...
JohnFen 7y ago
> The best option for the environment would be going without a car at all Indeed. This is what I do (in the US). The second-best option for the environment is to buy a used car. Environmentally speaking, a used ICE car beats a new electric one.
- kmonsen 7y ago
  US is not really saying enough. I live with my gf in NYC and we had no need for a car. If I got one for free I would have tried to sell it as soon as possible. Now we live in bay area suburbs with a dog, and one car is absolutely needed if you can afford it. If we had kids it would have been almost impossible without a car.

lordlic 7y ago

The real solution, at least in metro areas, is using public transport instead of driving. And that is another reason not to buy a Tesla, because of the Musk empire's ongoing crusade against public transportation. Dollars spent on Teslas are dollars available for advocating/subsidizing Loop-type and Boring Company projects that drain the public coffers for transportation infrastructure. I'm sure different people have different opinions on ethically how the anti-public-transport conflict of interest stacks up against the good done by making electric vehicles sexy, but for me they approximately cancel out and there's little virtue in buying a Tesla instead of a very efficient ICE or hybrid.

carlmr 7y ago
That's what I always say, if you want to be eco and you want to drive electric, by an electric bike. They have tiny batteries compared to electric cars and thus an almost negligible impact in comparison, enough range for 90% of your commuting needs, can keep you moderately fit, and you still have enough money left to drive your ICE for longer stretches.
- chongli 7y ago
  That’s not a very attractive option for those of us here in the north. Being buried in snow, slush, and ice for six months of the year makes biking very unattractive.
  - carlmr 7y ago
    I live in Germany, and except for the occasional snow I find it easy to ride a bike most of the year. And the countries further north I understand, but then those are a very small part of the world population, so I don't think the impact is that high, even if they drive ICE.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    I live in Utah, and we're known for snow, yet the bike paths are clear most of the year. I bike most of the time, and honestly, I prefer biking in winter to the summer because it's easier to layer up than cool down. When it snows, I take mass transit because I hate driving or cycling in the snow. I own a hybrid, which is a nice compromise between electric and ICE. I can go on long car trips without worrying about recharge stations and I save a ton on gas the rest of the time. I mostly use our car for shopping and family trips, and it often goes days without being used. My bike currently isn't an ebike, but I'm considering getting a conversion kit, which is way more powerful than the ebikes available in stores (the store models need to follow the law, aftermarket parts leave that up to the user).