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> from a developer point of view at that point you could be using a react based framework and your experience would be the similar to vue with JSX It will not,

> from a developer point of view at that point you could be using a react based framework and your experience would be the similar to vue with JSX It will not, because Vue has a better integration with the data source (Vuex) and a better integration with the routing (Vue Router) I mean, I agree that React is an awesome framework implemented upon great design ideas (pure functions and plain JS templates), but it has its shortcomings, that frankly make me still prefer Vue to React (mainly Redux and the router)

crubier 7y ago
For routing react-router is just perfect. And for data source/state management there is plenty of choice, I use Apollo for global state/data source and useState for small state full interactions, I can’t see how it could get simpler. But whatever floats you boat really, the point is that the nice part of vue are inspired by react anyway. I wish the two community merged, to be honest, I see no point in dividing for such small differences.
- spaceribs 7y ago
  > But whatever floats you boat really You specifically argued against that, your arguments seem to be highly religious in nature. I don't know how many years you've worked in the industry but if you think React will be the dominant way of building apps for the next ten years, I have some Adobe Flash developers who I'm sure would like to say a few words.
  - orange8 7y ago
    haha! Former hotshot Flash ActionScript 3 Ninja Developer reporting for duty as requested. Seriously though, JSX and TypeScript are nothing new. Both were part of ActionScript 3, a big language backed by a powerful company (Adobe). 15 years later, nobody even remembers it existed. How am I still making a comfortable living coding today? By not getting too attached to any language or framework... they are all just tools in the end. So let the young ones be, time will eventually teach them those lessons, sooner than they think.
    - pier25 7y ago
      Huh? AS3 had XML integrated into it? I remember E4X and Flex but not a JSX like syntax.
      - orange8 7y ago
        It wasn't exactly like JSX, more powerful as the XML was just another program data type to work with like strings and arrays.
  - crubier 7y ago
    The ideas behind react will still be big in ten years yes. My arguments are not religious but based on facts, I can share my PhD thesis from 2016 about user interface specification languages, that includes a comparison of more than 20 different approaches including react. Flash was always a proprietary platform and only fools would have bet their whole career on it back then. The situation of the ideas behind react, and browsers as a platform are very different. I’m not betting my career on it though (I’m a CTO in a company which Is not centered around web stuff) but I do believe that these ideas will leave an impact in the industry, and this belief is backed by specifically studying this topic for 4years, plus my 15years in the industry.
    - spaceribs 7y ago
      I'm a UI architect of a major SaaS company who maintains our 4-5 products between 8-10 feature teams. I've worked in the web industry for 11 years. My job is to enforce some semblance of sanity between very smart and clever engineers without heavily impacting their ability to deliver. My job entails much cat-herding, setting norms, and maintaining expectations. Every day I thank the gods we went with Angular. It has saved us countless times, every refactor is a joy, every upgrade is painless, every component is easily shared. I don't have to constantly worry about XSS, I don't have to explain how I want things structured (because the build fails if they don't structure it right), and I don't have to worry that if someone leaves, no one will know how to pick up and modify their project. Do developers hate it? Absolutely! They want to get work done fast and pump out cool, clever, smart work! They see Angular as a hinderance to the objective of "doing" because now they need to know about all these damn opinions that aren't their own. Angular isn't for them, it's for everyone else. By contrast, React enables selfish coding, which while totally okay when you have a few people and clear lines of ownership, does not scale well without strictly defined responsibilities and amazing cultural levels of synchronous decision-making.

crubier 7y ago

For routing react-router is just perfect. And for data source/state management there is plenty of choice, I use Apollo for global state/data source and useState for small state full interactions, I can’t see how it could get simpler. But whatever floats you boat really, the point is that the nice part of vue are inspired by react anyway. I wish the two community merged, to be honest, I see no point in dividing for such small differences.

spaceribs 7y ago
> But whatever floats you boat really You specifically argued against that, your arguments seem to be highly religious in nature. I don't know how many years you've worked in the industry but if you think React will be the dominant way of building apps for the next ten years, I have some Adobe Flash developers who I'm sure would like to say a few words.
- orange8 7y ago
  haha! Former hotshot Flash ActionScript 3 Ninja Developer reporting for duty as requested. Seriously though, JSX and TypeScript are nothing new. Both were part of ActionScript 3, a big language backed by a powerful company (Adobe). 15 years later, nobody even remembers it existed. How am I still making a comfortable living coding today? By not getting too attached to any language or framework... they are all just tools in the end. So let the young ones be, time will eventually teach them those lessons, sooner than they think.
  - pier25 7y ago
    Huh? AS3 had XML integrated into it? I remember E4X and Flex but not a JSX like syntax.
    - orange8 7y ago
      It wasn't exactly like JSX, more powerful as the XML was just another program data type to work with like strings and arrays.
- crubier 7y ago
  The ideas behind react will still be big in ten years yes. My arguments are not religious but based on facts, I can share my PhD thesis from 2016 about user interface specification languages, that includes a comparison of more than 20 different approaches including react. Flash was always a proprietary platform and only fools would have bet their whole career on it back then. The situation of the ideas behind react, and browsers as a platform are very different. I’m not betting my career on it though (I’m a CTO in a company which Is not centered around web stuff) but I do believe that these ideas will leave an impact in the industry, and this belief is backed by specifically studying this topic for 4years, plus my 15years in the industry.
  - spaceribs 7y ago
    I'm a UI architect of a major SaaS company who maintains our 4-5 products between 8-10 feature teams. I've worked in the web industry for 11 years. My job is to enforce some semblance of sanity between very smart and clever engineers without heavily impacting their ability to deliver. My job entails much cat-herding, setting norms, and maintaining expectations. Every day I thank the gods we went with Angular. It has saved us countless times, every refactor is a joy, every upgrade is painless, every component is easily shared. I don't have to constantly worry about XSS, I don't have to explain how I want things structured (because the build fails if they don't structure it right), and I don't have to worry that if someone leaves, no one will know how to pick up and modify their project. Do developers hate it? Absolutely! They want to get work done fast and pump out cool, clever, smart work! They see Angular as a hinderance to the objective of "doing" because now they need to know about all these damn opinions that aren't their own. Angular isn't for them, it's for everyone else. By contrast, React enables selfish coding, which while totally okay when you have a few people and clear lines of ownership, does not scale well without strictly defined responsibilities and amazing cultural levels of synchronous decision-making.