5 ms·

RE: eats incentive spend. Its a cash bonfire with Doordash and UE competing domestically, and a lot of other softbank funded delivery groups including uber eats

by tmh79 7y ago

RE: eats incentive spend. Its a cash bonfire with Doordash and UE competing domestically, and a lot of other softbank funded delivery groups including uber eats competing in south america. It seems like that late stage financing has dried up so likely to see rationalization in this vertical.

rconti 7y ago
At least with ride hailing we got cheap, convenient rides for a subsidized price. For food delivery, we get overpriced (upcharged) food, plus a delivery fee, for cold food that takes forever to show up.
- wpietri 7y ago
  It really does amaze me how much worse the delivery experience has gotten in the last few years. Prices are way up, and the additional complexity means deliveries are less reliable and less predictable. Which makes a lot of sense, really. If a restaurant advertised delivery previously, they had delivery employees and treated it like an important aspect of their experience. Now it's really not clear who, if anybody, is responsible for ensuring a good experience.
  - WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago
    Uber is responsible for the delivery experience, the restaurant is responsible for the food experience.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      As any restaurant cook can tell you that there's a lot of steps they have no control over that directly impact food experience.
      - WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago
        How does that relate to my comment?
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    I use UE more than I care to admit and while the prices can suck the only weirdness I've seen is people lie about riding bikes, a lot. I think there's an incentive for bike riders so I don't report it (not like they're paid well anyway) but it is odd.
    - matthewowen 7y ago
      I think bike riders get extra information about orders (presumably so they can refuse orders that they can't carry), but obviously car drivers would like that information too. This is just based on my recollection from a friend of mine doing Postmates a few years back.
    - lev272 7y ago
      I noticed the bike thing when traveling to NYC recently. I assumed it had something to do with the city's utilization bill not applying to bikes.
    - idunno246 7y ago
      In a competitor app, I’m guessing it’s the same for Uber, bikers got paid more per mile because it was assumed to take longer. Also, bikers dont need proof of car insurance
  - puranjay 7y ago
    Delivery is now just a pass-the-buck system. Delivery companies blame riders who blame restaurants who blame delivery companies again. I'm not sure if this is something that can sustain once the discount gravy train runs dry.
- actusual 7y ago
  This hasn't been my experience at all. Granted, I try to order from places close to me, but I was shocked at how smooth the transaction was with Uber Eats, and how fresh the food was. Also, little pro-tip: order food that travels well. French-fries are a huge risk, but hot sandwiches/pizza/asian food is great.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    I think Radio Lab did an experiment with french fries. The optimal method of transporting them was to never seal them (!!), turn your car heater on full blast, and put them right in front of a vent. ... if you survive driving a car that smells like french fries, while hungry, apparently they turn out pretty decent.
    - Drakar1903 7y ago
      You gotta pop the hood of your car and put them on whatever part of the engine is the warmest. There's probably optimization where you cook the fries as you drive.
- pj_mukh 7y ago
  Yea, so how are the unit costs working out? Why is delivery so costly AND they are losing money? How costly is delivery supposed to be for a company to be profitable (assuming NYC level density).
  - michaelt 7y ago
    > Why is delivery so costly If I live 10 minutes and 2 miles from a pizza place, a round trip is $1 in fuel and depreciation, and $4 salary at minimum wage - if the driver is driving constantly, never has to wait for the food to be ready or sit around waiting for orders to come in. If the driver sometimes has to wait around for the food to be ready, and there are quiet times at the start and end of the evening, and the driver gets health insurance, holiday/sick leave and a pension, delivery could easily cost $10.
- mathattack 7y ago
  Shows up unpredictably. I can’t fathom how DoorDash stays in business, let alone grows. At least Uber has other businesses with possible network effects. Too bad the NYC bicycle delivery model doesn’t scale.
- cavisne 7y ago
  Choice of delivery restaurants is much higher though. Previously (outside of NYC and other major metro areas) your choices for easy delivery were pizza and.... pizza. Everywhere else either didn't offer delivery, or it was offered on a very ad hoc basis (one employee who might be able to deliver for very large orders, and you had to ring the store, and pay in cash). Now the majority of restaurants offer delivery, it costs a lot more than domino's pizza but no one cares.
Deimorz 7y ago
Here in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, we currently have these food delivery services competing, with their own app, exclusive agreements with restaurants, and so on: - Uber Eats - DoorDash - SkipTheDishes - Foodora - Fantuan - HungryEats And there were at least two more that were previously available but seem to have been acquired: Just Eat (by SkipTheDishes), and Nomme (by DoorDash). It's ridiculous how many companies are fighting over a market that doesn't even seem to be close to profitable for anyone.
- fusdgsaf 7y ago
  Exactly, what is the barrier to entry in this market. What are the competitive moats around keeping drivers, and what paradigm shifts might cause this to all turn over on its head. Just some questions.

by tmh79 7y ago

rconti 7y ago

At least with ride hailing we got cheap, convenient rides for a subsidized price. For food delivery, we get overpriced (upcharged) food, plus a delivery fee, for cold food that takes forever to show up.

wpietri 7y ago
It really does amaze me how much worse the delivery experience has gotten in the last few years. Prices are way up, and the additional complexity means deliveries are less reliable and less predictable. Which makes a lot of sense, really. If a restaurant advertised delivery previously, they had delivery employees and treated it like an important aspect of their experience. Now it's really not clear who, if anybody, is responsible for ensuring a good experience.
- WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago
  Uber is responsible for the delivery experience, the restaurant is responsible for the food experience.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    As any restaurant cook can tell you that there's a lot of steps they have no control over that directly impact food experience.
    - WC3w6pXxgGd 7y ago
      How does that relate to my comment?
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  I use UE more than I care to admit and while the prices can suck the only weirdness I've seen is people lie about riding bikes, a lot. I think there's an incentive for bike riders so I don't report it (not like they're paid well anyway) but it is odd.
  - matthewowen 7y ago
    I think bike riders get extra information about orders (presumably so they can refuse orders that they can't carry), but obviously car drivers would like that information too. This is just based on my recollection from a friend of mine doing Postmates a few years back.
  - lev272 7y ago
    I noticed the bike thing when traveling to NYC recently. I assumed it had something to do with the city's utilization bill not applying to bikes.
  - idunno246 7y ago
    In a competitor app, I’m guessing it’s the same for Uber, bikers got paid more per mile because it was assumed to take longer. Also, bikers dont need proof of car insurance
- puranjay 7y ago
  Delivery is now just a pass-the-buck system. Delivery companies blame riders who blame restaurants who blame delivery companies again. I'm not sure if this is something that can sustain once the discount gravy train runs dry.
actusual 7y ago
This hasn't been my experience at all. Granted, I try to order from places close to me, but I was shocked at how smooth the transaction was with Uber Eats, and how fresh the food was. Also, little pro-tip: order food that travels well. French-fries are a huge risk, but hot sandwiches/pizza/asian food is great.
- ethbro 7y ago
  I think Radio Lab did an experiment with french fries. The optimal method of transporting them was to never seal them (!!), turn your car heater on full blast, and put them right in front of a vent. ... if you survive driving a car that smells like french fries, while hungry, apparently they turn out pretty decent.
  - Drakar1903 7y ago
    You gotta pop the hood of your car and put them on whatever part of the engine is the warmest. There's probably optimization where you cook the fries as you drive.
pj_mukh 7y ago
Yea, so how are the unit costs working out? Why is delivery so costly AND they are losing money? How costly is delivery supposed to be for a company to be profitable (assuming NYC level density).
- michaelt 7y ago
  > Why is delivery so costly If I live 10 minutes and 2 miles from a pizza place, a round trip is $1 in fuel and depreciation, and $4 salary at minimum wage - if the driver is driving constantly, never has to wait for the food to be ready or sit around waiting for orders to come in. If the driver sometimes has to wait around for the food to be ready, and there are quiet times at the start and end of the evening, and the driver gets health insurance, holiday/sick leave and a pension, delivery could easily cost $10.
mathattack 7y ago
Shows up unpredictably. I can’t fathom how DoorDash stays in business, let alone grows. At least Uber has other businesses with possible network effects. Too bad the NYC bicycle delivery model doesn’t scale.
cavisne 7y ago
Choice of delivery restaurants is much higher though. Previously (outside of NYC and other major metro areas) your choices for easy delivery were pizza and.... pizza. Everywhere else either didn't offer delivery, or it was offered on a very ad hoc basis (one employee who might be able to deliver for very large orders, and you had to ring the store, and pay in cash). Now the majority of restaurants offer delivery, it costs a lot more than domino's pizza but no one cares.

Deimorz 7y ago

Here in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, we currently have these food delivery services competing, with their own app, exclusive agreements with restaurants, and so on: - Uber Eats - DoorDash - SkipTheDishes - Foodora - Fantuan - HungryEats And there were at least two more that were previously available but seem to have been acquired: Just Eat (by SkipTheDishes), and Nomme (by DoorDash). It's ridiculous how many companies are fighting over a market that doesn't even seem to be close to profitable for anyone.

fusdgsaf 7y ago
Exactly, what is the barrier to entry in this market. What are the competitive moats around keeping drivers, and what paradigm shifts might cause this to all turn over on its head. Just some questions.