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Interviewing is a business transaction, not social services. They'll min-max their time just like you'll mix-max your compensation. I'll happily give advice, f

Interviewing is a business transaction, not social services. They'll min-max their time just like you'll mix-max your compensation. I'll happily give advice, feedback, mock interviews, and other sorts of help on my own time in more appropriate environments. When it's company time, it's just business.

eropple 7y ago
You can rationalize how you'd like, but it's never "just business." These are people you're talking about. They matter more than your company does. Be decent.
- kenhwang 7y ago
  They're getting a prompt, professional, inoffensive response in exchange for their time. That is decency. You can't expect a business to feed the hungry, cure the sick, and house the poor out of the goodness of their hearts because these are people that spent a couple hours of their day with you. There are more appropriate institutions for charity.
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    Perhaps the easiest business-oriented solution to this mess is to simply comp applicants for investing their time in interviews with a company. At least then there isn’t the sentiment of having wasted time.
    - eropple 7y ago
      This is an excellent suggestion that treats people as people and as professionals whose time is valuable. It would, of course, never happen, because those same employers fear of what might happen if they granted the same respect they demand, but I admire your lateral thinking.
  - eropple 7y ago
    Uh. I can certainly expect a business to be responsible in it's treatment of others. They exist at the sufferance of the society that grants their charter. Why should shitty behavior be normalized, ever? And why are you stanning so hard for a process whose bloodless mind would bleed you dry and kick you to the curb for a nickel? Was Steinbeck really that right?
xkemp 7y ago
It's interesting how "it's business" has become catch-all for absolving every breach of previously accepted social norm. As a hiring manager, you're unlikely to be on the clock. And even if, I am somewhat certain that you could come up with good justifications for giving feedback if anybody asks, which nobody will. It seems to be a specific disease of middle management to feel the need to demonstrate their "professionalism" by going out of their way to deny their humanity. At Wall Street, they buy ugly but expensive clothes for this purpose. But I guess on the West Coast you only have the Gordon Gecko playbook to fall back on. I used to work at a branding agency, and it was interesting to see how risk averse middle management was: ideas for product names tend to only be good if they evoke some sort of not entirely pure concept. Think of "Plan B", "Virgin", or "CockroachDB". These would always get shot down by middle management as "unprofessional". Go a level up and people are far more open to be human. I don't know if they are just more self-assured and therefore willing to trust their instincts, or if the selection process for higher management actually works quite well.
- alex7o 7y ago
  I feel like the reason that is, because middle managers believe they need to be better by not making mistakes, and things without mistakes are bland and inhumane, also some of them maybe have a some kind of complex. I might be wrong tho?
fzeroracer 7y ago
Sure, and as a business transaction, what do you think will happen if you treat potential business partners poorly? The answer is that they'll leave negative reviews, tell people to avoid your company or decimate any goodwill your company might have. I have in the past left scathing reviews on Glassdoor and was on some occasions the first one to drop my experience. Because after long projects or a company promising to get back in touch, they decided to instead ghost me or make me do ridiculous tricks for the application process. If you view something as a business transaction, then you should know one of the worst things you can do in business is spurn the person you're working with.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  I had someone ghost me right before a christmas holiday once, after the hiring manager (a VP) told me they'd for sure give me a call the next day. It was right before a major storm went through the area, and because I had waited for their call at home I had to drive 10 hours through the storm to see my folks as the storm had arrived the following day. I naturally left a scathing review for that place, but Glassdoor removed it (of course).

eropple 7y ago

You can rationalize how you'd like, but it's never "just business." These are people you're talking about. They matter more than your company does. Be decent.

kenhwang 7y ago
They're getting a prompt, professional, inoffensive response in exchange for their time. That is decency. You can't expect a business to feed the hungry, cure the sick, and house the poor out of the goodness of their hearts because these are people that spent a couple hours of their day with you. There are more appropriate institutions for charity.
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  Perhaps the easiest business-oriented solution to this mess is to simply comp applicants for investing their time in interviews with a company. At least then there isn’t the sentiment of having wasted time.
  - eropple 7y ago
    This is an excellent suggestion that treats people as people and as professionals whose time is valuable. It would, of course, never happen, because those same employers fear of what might happen if they granted the same respect they demand, but I admire your lateral thinking.
- eropple 7y ago
  Uh. I can certainly expect a business to be responsible in it's treatment of others. They exist at the sufferance of the society that grants their charter. Why should shitty behavior be normalized, ever? And why are you stanning so hard for a process whose bloodless mind would bleed you dry and kick you to the curb for a nickel? Was Steinbeck really that right?

xkemp 7y ago

It's interesting how "it's business" has become catch-all for absolving every breach of previously accepted social norm. As a hiring manager, you're unlikely to be on the clock. And even if, I am somewhat certain that you could come up with good justifications for giving feedback if anybody asks, which nobody will. It seems to be a specific disease of middle management to feel the need to demonstrate their "professionalism" by going out of their way to deny their humanity. At Wall Street, they buy ugly but expensive clothes for this purpose. But I guess on the West Coast you only have the Gordon Gecko playbook to fall back on. I used to work at a branding agency, and it was interesting to see how risk averse middle management was: ideas for product names tend to only be good if they evoke some sort of not entirely pure concept. Think of "Plan B", "Virgin", or "CockroachDB". These would always get shot down by middle management as "unprofessional". Go a level up and people are far more open to be human. I don't know if they are just more self-assured and therefore willing to trust their instincts, or if the selection process for higher management actually works quite well.

alex7o 7y ago
I feel like the reason that is, because middle managers believe they need to be better by not making mistakes, and things without mistakes are bland and inhumane, also some of them maybe have a some kind of complex. I might be wrong tho?

fzeroracer 7y ago

Sure, and as a business transaction, what do you think will happen if you treat potential business partners poorly? The answer is that they'll leave negative reviews, tell people to avoid your company or decimate any goodwill your company might have. I have in the past left scathing reviews on Glassdoor and was on some occasions the first one to drop my experience. Because after long projects or a company promising to get back in touch, they decided to instead ghost me or make me do ridiculous tricks for the application process. If you view something as a business transaction, then you should know one of the worst things you can do in business is spurn the person you're working with.

Nuzzerino 7y ago
I had someone ghost me right before a christmas holiday once, after the hiring manager (a VP) told me they'd for sure give me a call the next day. It was right before a major storm went through the area, and because I had waited for their call at home I had to drive 10 hours through the storm to see my folks as the storm had arrived the following day. I naturally left a scathing review for that place, but Glassdoor removed it (of course).