5 ms·

It's about keeping non-citizens who don't have the right to vote from voting. Not implementing these laws diminishes the enfranchised.

josefresco 7y ago
Nope, just another form of Poll tax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_State...
- 1000units 7y ago
  No, it isn't. However, let's assume it is. If you don't pay your (separate and presumably uncontroversial) federal taxes, you become a felon and legally disenfranchised. It becomes clear this is all a minor accounting detail.
wbronitsky 7y ago
Do we have any evidence that non-citizens voting is an actual problem, or are you just spreading FUD? The GP has linked some well sourced articles about how voter ID laws have been used for primarily racist purposes in the US. Do you have any evidence that supports another narrative?
- 1000units 7y ago
  Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?
  - wbronitsky 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St... This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conversations, we must be ready for such evidence, and consider it when it is present.
    - 1000units 7y ago
      I'm willing to have an earnest, extended conversation with you. On the other hand, you are immediately unwilling to personally support the basic premise of your proposed argument. This is very curious; perhaps you are a dishonest actor with a knowingly unsound argument. (This is my natural and rational suspicion, please take no offense!)
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - wbronitsky 7y ago
        Yes, as my posting history clearly indicates, I'm a schill for voting rights and equal representation.
        1000units 7y ago
        Me too, except the venue your personal household and the representation in the heart of your wife, whom I consider an attractive upgrade to mine. Or are there conditions here you're omitting that distinguish heroism from banditry? I say I am entitled to my franchise, sir!
  - chishaku 7y ago
    Voter ID laws disproportionately disenfranchise minority communities. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote... 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification. These voters are disproportionately low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Such voters more frequently have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card. https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-... Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...
    - 1000units 7y ago
      I grew up in a poor, predominantly black inner-city. I and everyone I knew had an ID card, if not just to buy alcohol. People who don't participate in our society enough to acquire basic documentation required for not living on the streets are overwhelmingly not interested in voting (this accounts for a sliver of the roughly half of the nation that didn't bother to participate in the last presidential election.) If you have the means and will to visit a poll booth, you have it to get an ID, unless there are legitimately disqualifying circumstances. If you believe this isn't the case, you should be lobbying explicitly to get these people ID's more easily, not to remove the requirement at the poll booth. This documentation is already required for virtually everything else; these (hypothetical) people need your help.

josefresco 7y ago

Nope, just another form of Poll tax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_State...

1000units 7y ago
No, it isn't. However, let's assume it is. If you don't pay your (separate and presumably uncontroversial) federal taxes, you become a felon and legally disenfranchised. It becomes clear this is all a minor accounting detail.

wbronitsky 7y ago

Do we have any evidence that non-citizens voting is an actual problem, or are you just spreading FUD? The GP has linked some well sourced articles about how voter ID laws have been used for primarily racist purposes in the US. Do you have any evidence that supports another narrative?

1000units 7y ago
Racist? Where the hell does that come from? Why would any particular race not be able to produce legal documentation confirming their identity at a poll booth?
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St... This is not a difficult topic, nor is it a very nuanced one; voter ID laws in the United States are and have been overwhelmingly racist. The answers to your questions are very much easily at hand, and we don't need to argue in ignorance. I understand it can be frustrating to see evidence that you are unprepared for; yet in order to have substantive conversations, we must be ready for such evidence, and consider it when it is present.
  - 1000units 7y ago
    I'm willing to have an earnest, extended conversation with you. On the other hand, you are immediately unwilling to personally support the basic premise of your proposed argument. This is very curious; perhaps you are a dishonest actor with a knowingly unsound argument. (This is my natural and rational suspicion, please take no offense!)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - wbronitsky 7y ago
      Yes, as my posting history clearly indicates, I'm a schill for voting rights and equal representation.
      - 1000units 7y ago
        Me too, except the venue your personal household and the representation in the heart of your wife, whom I consider an attractive upgrade to mine. Or are there conditions here you're omitting that distinguish heroism from banditry? I say I am entitled to my franchise, sir!
- chishaku 7y ago
  Voter ID laws disproportionately disenfranchise minority communities. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-voter-id-laws/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-vote... 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification. These voters are disproportionately low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities. Such voters more frequently have difficulty obtaining ID, because they cannot afford or cannot obtain the underlying documents that are a prerequisite to obtaining government-issued photo ID card. https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-... Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...
  - 1000units 7y ago
    I grew up in a poor, predominantly black inner-city. I and everyone I knew had an ID card, if not just to buy alcohol. People who don't participate in our society enough to acquire basic documentation required for not living on the streets are overwhelmingly not interested in voting (this accounts for a sliver of the roughly half of the nation that didn't bother to participate in the last presidential election.) If you have the means and will to visit a poll booth, you have it to get an ID, unless there are legitimately disqualifying circumstances. If you believe this isn't the case, you should be lobbying explicitly to get these people ID's more easily, not to remove the requirement at the poll booth. This documentation is already required for virtually everything else; these (hypothetical) people need your help.