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The reply from Brutus Lyon[1] does not even warrant a response because everything about it feels wrong. Anyway here goes: >> EE has always had a free registrat

by niyazpk 16y ago

The reply from Brutus Lyon[1] does not even warrant a response because everything about it feels wrong. Anyway here goes: >> EE has always had a free registration at https://secure.experts-exchange.com/registerExpert.jsp https://secure.experts-exchange.com/registerExpert.jsp . That people choose to not use it isn't EE's fault. Your fault is hiding the link from users and sending them to https://secure.experts-exchange.com/register.jsp?rsid=60&redirectURL=/ https://secure.experts-exchange.com/register.jsp?rsid=60&#38... when clicking on the sign-up page. This kind of behavior is extremely offensive and hostile especially considering the fact that your users are from a demographic who can easily see through your BS. >> EE's record, the last I saw, was seven SECONDS. I've seen at least a dozen under 20 seconds. Sometimes you get lucky. With StackOverflow, I always get lucky. With EE, I have to get lucky to get a good answer (or even to see the answer behind all your paywall and ads). >> You think voting helps you get the right answer; I think it's arrogant and rude that someone else tells you what works best for you. WHAT? You ask a question because you want help and don't know what works for you. How is answering that question arrogant and rude? (Voting is also an special type of answering mechanism). Sometimes the most voted answer may not solve your problem, but tell you that what you are trying to do is wrong. I think votes let you know which of the solutions to consider before trying out any of the solutions. >> You think "everything should be free"; I think you charge for your services, and EE has every right to charge for its. Except that you charge for the content your users created not knowing in advance that you guys will make it a closed system. >> EE is successful because it only promises what it can provide, and keeps that promise. EE was successful. You are not growing and will go down soon if you continue with your attitude: http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png And what promise do you keep? I didn't know that providing different content to Google and to your visitors is your way of keeping promises. >> When the $5 million in VC money runs out, then SO will have to get money from someone -- which means ads or a paywall. All of SO content is in CC license. If they go rogue, the community will just create a new website with the same content. Basically all this boils down to what kind of people run the site. I am sorry that the people behind EE cannot see the future. [1] http://blog.williamhilsum.com/2011/02/response-to-experts-exchange-blog-post.html?showComment=1297831818465#c2487540992635813811 http://blog.williamhilsum.com/2011/02/response-to-experts-ex...

wilhil 16y ago
Cool! - and thanks guys for voting on this news item. Here is my similar response I wrote on my blog: @Brutus Lyon. 1. That is the first time I have ever seen that Expert sign up page, and the fact that there is no reference to it, or easy way to find it does not really support your point. When I clicked sign up to the blog in order to post a comment, I was asked for payment information. 2. Seven seconds for a response? I bet that that was brilliant quality - What, 2 seconds to read, 5 seconds to type? 3. Still think this goes against what was originally said about accepting answers. 4. Oh, you mean the question askers do not always get to pick the answer... Going again against what was said. Second lot... 1. Voting does not improve quality, it has the ability to show quality of an already existing answer. Pro users get down voted all the time. 2. The whole point of asking a question is because you do not understand a topic. Having people who do understand vote (typically because what they were going to write has already been written) limits duplicates and allows you to spot a good quality answer. There have been many many times when the top voted answer has not been accepted. 3. I don't at all think everything should be free, please read the last paragraph, and I understand I am being a hypocrite here. All I can say is that the landscape is changing and why should people have to pay to EE, when they can get it free elsewhere. ... The last few paragraphs of what you wrote.... SE has a few revenue generating techniques and already has adverts in a way that does not annoy the user. In fact, I have learnt about some new brilliant products through their targeted adverts (and am using one in a project right now). I will take this any day. and one thing... EE Was successful, you have been stagnating for ages now. Take a look at any website that compares statistics. (Thanks to niyazpk from ycombinator - http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png
- 6ren 16y ago
  re: http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png Amazingly, EE seem to have doubled in the last 2 years. Not a zero-sum game. aside: has SO found a profitable business model yet? They have ads, including for jobs, but last I heard, it wasn't yet actually profitable.
Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
>> >> You think voting helps you get the right answer; I think it's arrogant and rude that someone else tells you what works best for you. >> WHAT? You ask a question because you want help and don't know what works for you. How is answering that question arrogant and rude? (Voting is also an special type of answering mechanism). >> Sometimes the most voted answer may not solve your problem, but tell you that what you are trying to do is wrong. I think the votes let you know which of the solutions to consider before trying out any of the solutions. Yep, sometimes people up vote things which miss the point of questions (as originally intended) but generally they don't and even when they do (a) the information therein is interesting and useful and (b) the answer is probably of interest to anyone else with a similar problem who might want more than a single opinion on how to handle things. Surely a fundamental part of these sites is that the person originally asking the question is only one potential user of the answers and others will look at the information after them? The advantage of SO is that it allows you to see two things (1) what did the original questioner think most useful and (2) what does the community think is the best solution to the problem. The original asker is coming from a real world problem / solution perspective which is great but may have specific reasons for accepting an answer which are not stated in the question and are therefore unclear to me. On the other hand the community judges on only what's there and because it's the voice of many is less likely to be skewed by single specific factors. But ultimately as someone reading the question after the event both of these are useful to me. Worst case scenario is you have to review two answers not one - the highest voted answer and the accepted answer. To me that's a very small price which is almost always rewarded with better information so I'm very happy with it. As for thinking that others voting (essentially contributing their time and experience to read an answer, check it against their knowledge and experience and say "I think this is a great point which is worth reading") is rude and arrogant then possibly he should extend that view to those who are so rude and arrogant as to think they could possibly answer your question. They're both contributions to helping people solve their problem as quickly and well as possible and are basically the same thing.

by niyazpk 16y ago

wilhil 16y ago

Cool! - and thanks guys for voting on this news item. Here is my similar response I wrote on my blog: @Brutus Lyon. 1. That is the first time I have ever seen that Expert sign up page, and the fact that there is no reference to it, or easy way to find it does not really support your point. When I clicked sign up to the blog in order to post a comment, I was asked for payment information. 2. Seven seconds for a response? I bet that that was brilliant quality - What, 2 seconds to read, 5 seconds to type? 3. Still think this goes against what was originally said about accepting answers. 4. Oh, you mean the question askers do not always get to pick the answer... Going again against what was said. Second lot... 1. Voting does not improve quality, it has the ability to show quality of an already existing answer. Pro users get down voted all the time. 2. The whole point of asking a question is because you do not understand a topic. Having people who do understand vote (typically because what they were going to write has already been written) limits duplicates and allows you to spot a good quality answer. There have been many many times when the top voted answer has not been accepted. 3. I don't at all think everything should be free, please read the last paragraph, and I understand I am being a hypocrite here. All I can say is that the landscape is changing and why should people have to pay to EE, when they can get it free elsewhere. ... The last few paragraphs of what you wrote.... SE has a few revenue generating techniques and already has adverts in a way that does not annoy the user. In fact, I have learnt about some new brilliant products through their targeted adverts (and am using one in a project right now). I will take this any day. and one thing... EE Was successful, you have been stagnating for ages now. Take a look at any website that compares statistics. (Thanks to niyazpk from ycombinator - http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png

6ren 16y ago
re: http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png http://i.imgur.com/Vm1on.png Amazingly, EE seem to have doubled in the last 2 years. Not a zero-sum game. aside: has SO found a profitable business model yet? They have ads, including for jobs, but last I heard, it wasn't yet actually profitable.

Tyrannosaurs 16y ago

>> >> You think voting helps you get the right answer; I think it's arrogant and rude that someone else tells you what works best for you. >> WHAT? You ask a question because you want help and don't know what works for you. How is answering that question arrogant and rude? (Voting is also an special type of answering mechanism). >> Sometimes the most voted answer may not solve your problem, but tell you that what you are trying to do is wrong. I think the votes let you know which of the solutions to consider before trying out any of the solutions. Yep, sometimes people up vote things which miss the point of questions (as originally intended) but generally they don't and even when they do (a) the information therein is interesting and useful and (b) the answer is probably of interest to anyone else with a similar problem who might want more than a single opinion on how to handle things. Surely a fundamental part of these sites is that the person originally asking the question is only one potential user of the answers and others will look at the information after them? The advantage of SO is that it allows you to see two things (1) what did the original questioner think most useful and (2) what does the community think is the best solution to the problem. The original asker is coming from a real world problem / solution perspective which is great but may have specific reasons for accepting an answer which are not stated in the question and are therefore unclear to me. On the other hand the community judges on only what's there and because it's the voice of many is less likely to be skewed by single specific factors. But ultimately as someone reading the question after the event both of these are useful to me. Worst case scenario is you have to review two answers not one - the highest voted answer and the accepted answer. To me that's a very small price which is almost always rewarded with better information so I'm very happy with it. As for thinking that others voting (essentially contributing their time and experience to read an answer, check it against their knowledge and experience and say "I think this is a great point which is worth reading") is rude and arrogant then possibly he should extend that view to those who are so rude and arrogant as to think they could possibly answer your question. They're both contributions to helping people solve their problem as quickly and well as possible and are basically the same thing.