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> Just to get the alternate view out there too This always comes up in these discussions. Extroverts say they prefer the open office format because they can ta

> Just to get the alternate view out there too This always comes up in these discussions. Extroverts say they prefer the open office format because they can talk to others. That's nice and all, but shouldn't you be working rather than satisfying your desire to talk to others? (The same goes for workers not in an open office not playing on HN all day.)

ericwood 7y ago
It's not necessarily just to idly chat with other people, but has more to do with where you get your energy. I find I'm most productive and energized when surrounded by other people. Conversation is a part of it, and the ability to collaborate on the fly is great. If I'm heads down on something it's fine to be isolated every so often, but if it's for more than a few days my energy level is sunk and my productivity actually decreases dramatically.
- slavapestov 7y ago
  Socializing is great, but maybe you can find an outlet for that outside of work?
  - ericwood 7y ago
    What I'm saying is that it goes beyond socializing; if I'm cut off from other people and heads-down all the time I get depressed and it's counter-productive. I socialize plenty outside of work, but I am happiest and most productive at when I can feed off other people's energy. It's a balance, though, and overstimulation is still an issue, and I need periods of quiet and concentration like anyone else.
- agentultra 7y ago
  I get it and I totally appreciate my extrovert colleagues. I think the ability to have both is good. Sometimes I do like to work with others. It's just that often open-plan offices are an all-or-nothing affair. It's a weird way to construct a space for people to work and collaborate given how different we all are.
  - ericwood 7y ago
    These conversations always seem to be extremely one-sided, and it's frustrating. I wouldn't even classify myself as an extrovert; it's a continuum and people fall all over the place. Ultimately, though, an ideal office needs to cater to everyone. Some of my favorite offices have been ones that have the typical open office structure, but also lots and lots of "hiding places" and different areas. I'm super ADHD and changes in scenery were helpful, and being able to adapt my environment to the task at hand, or even give people having impromptu conversations a refuge so the desk areas weren't noisy. The startup I work at currently encourages everyone to work from home tuesdays and thursdays. It makes for a great mix; when I'm in the office I can engage with my coworkers, catch up, or have those deeper discussions that inevitably come up face-to-face. Work that requires intense concentration can be batched for those days, or I can opt to take additional time at home if necessary.
    - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
      Workplaces themselves are so egregiously one-sides in the other direction that these discussions have to be one-sided, because by definition it’s the huge, huge majority of people who find the existing actually workplaces to be one-sidesly disergonomic. You’re worried that the discussion is one-sides. I’m worried that physical workplaces are one-sided, today, for real, to such an extent that it’s deeply cognitively harmful to many people.
      - ericwood 7y ago
        I mean, clearly it's not working for a large chunk of people, otherwise this article wouldn't keep appearing on the front page of HN regularly. What I'm saying is there's a way to meet in the middle.
        Mountain_Skies 7y ago
        Is there? About the only thing I've seen suggested that might work is to offer everyone a choice but as another poster commented, the vast majority would choose an office over an open floorplan. Group rooms, shared offices, etc., would be an acceptable compromise for some but far from all. These middle solutions still have the negatives of the open floorplan just on a smaller scale. If you prefer cola and I prefer water, watered down cola isn't going to make either of us very happy.
bluGill 7y ago
That depends on what they are talking about. Extroverts think out loud, so they need someone to talk with just to think. So long as the other person is an extrovert that is okay because they both work the same way. Extroverts - because they talk and ask questions are often the first to know. If the company has decided some project isn't doing the introverts can waste a lot of time continuing on a canceled project. Also extroverts can sometimes discover a quick/easy need to fill - a 10 minute script at the right time can sometimes be more valuable than a years of effort an introvert puts into the main project.
HammockTester 7y ago
No. That might be the perspective of the employer. Work from an employee perspective is about satisfying your own needs: financial, social, goal-oriented, etc. You obviously need to get some amount of work done to keep your job and meet your own goals, but not necessarily 8 hours of sustained effort per day.
ryandrake 7y ago
Human interaction is more than just blabbering at the water cooler. It could be as little as just seeing people walking in and out, hearing them rinse out their coffee cup, overhearing nuggets about which part of the project is behind or overhearing technical discussions that might give me ideas to try. All these things are challenging to come by when you’re shut in a quiet office. To some people this stuff doesn’t matter and/or is even detrimental to concentration. I get that. To others it’s as vital as oxygen. I don’t think one preference is any more or less valid than the other.
- MandieD 7y ago
  The people walking in and out, rinsing out their coffee cups, overhearing discussions that are occasionally useful but usually not is the problem for those of us distracted and stressed out by open-plan offices. As far as preferences go, though, if you get even a small part of the external stimulus you want, it's already started wearing on us. Perhaps larger companies could try offering quiet floors with lots of barriers vs "social" open-plan floors.

ericwood 7y ago

It's not necessarily just to idly chat with other people, but has more to do with where you get your energy. I find I'm most productive and energized when surrounded by other people. Conversation is a part of it, and the ability to collaborate on the fly is great. If I'm heads down on something it's fine to be isolated every so often, but if it's for more than a few days my energy level is sunk and my productivity actually decreases dramatically.

slavapestov 7y ago
Socializing is great, but maybe you can find an outlet for that outside of work?
- ericwood 7y ago
  What I'm saying is that it goes beyond socializing; if I'm cut off from other people and heads-down all the time I get depressed and it's counter-productive. I socialize plenty outside of work, but I am happiest and most productive at when I can feed off other people's energy. It's a balance, though, and overstimulation is still an issue, and I need periods of quiet and concentration like anyone else.
agentultra 7y ago
I get it and I totally appreciate my extrovert colleagues. I think the ability to have both is good. Sometimes I do like to work with others. It's just that often open-plan offices are an all-or-nothing affair. It's a weird way to construct a space for people to work and collaborate given how different we all are.
- ericwood 7y ago
  These conversations always seem to be extremely one-sided, and it's frustrating. I wouldn't even classify myself as an extrovert; it's a continuum and people fall all over the place. Ultimately, though, an ideal office needs to cater to everyone. Some of my favorite offices have been ones that have the typical open office structure, but also lots and lots of "hiding places" and different areas. I'm super ADHD and changes in scenery were helpful, and being able to adapt my environment to the task at hand, or even give people having impromptu conversations a refuge so the desk areas weren't noisy. The startup I work at currently encourages everyone to work from home tuesdays and thursdays. It makes for a great mix; when I'm in the office I can engage with my coworkers, catch up, or have those deeper discussions that inevitably come up face-to-face. Work that requires intense concentration can be batched for those days, or I can opt to take additional time at home if necessary.
  - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
    Workplaces themselves are so egregiously one-sides in the other direction that these discussions have to be one-sided, because by definition it’s the huge, huge majority of people who find the existing actually workplaces to be one-sidesly disergonomic. You’re worried that the discussion is one-sides. I’m worried that physical workplaces are one-sided, today, for real, to such an extent that it’s deeply cognitively harmful to many people.
    - ericwood 7y ago
      I mean, clearly it's not working for a large chunk of people, otherwise this article wouldn't keep appearing on the front page of HN regularly. What I'm saying is there's a way to meet in the middle.
      - Mountain_Skies 7y ago
        Is there? About the only thing I've seen suggested that might work is to offer everyone a choice but as another poster commented, the vast majority would choose an office over an open floorplan. Group rooms, shared offices, etc., would be an acceptable compromise for some but far from all. These middle solutions still have the negatives of the open floorplan just on a smaller scale. If you prefer cola and I prefer water, watered down cola isn't going to make either of us very happy.

bluGill 7y ago

That depends on what they are talking about. Extroverts think out loud, so they need someone to talk with just to think. So long as the other person is an extrovert that is okay because they both work the same way. Extroverts - because they talk and ask questions are often the first to know. If the company has decided some project isn't doing the introverts can waste a lot of time continuing on a canceled project. Also extroverts can sometimes discover a quick/easy need to fill - a 10 minute script at the right time can sometimes be more valuable than a years of effort an introvert puts into the main project.

HammockTester 7y ago

No. That might be the perspective of the employer. Work from an employee perspective is about satisfying your own needs: financial, social, goal-oriented, etc. You obviously need to get some amount of work done to keep your job and meet your own goals, but not necessarily 8 hours of sustained effort per day.

ryandrake 7y ago

Human interaction is more than just blabbering at the water cooler. It could be as little as just seeing people walking in and out, hearing them rinse out their coffee cup, overhearing nuggets about which part of the project is behind or overhearing technical discussions that might give me ideas to try. All these things are challenging to come by when you’re shut in a quiet office. To some people this stuff doesn’t matter and/or is even detrimental to concentration. I get that. To others it’s as vital as oxygen. I don’t think one preference is any more or less valid than the other.

MandieD 7y ago
The people walking in and out, rinsing out their coffee cups, overhearing discussions that are occasionally useful but usually not is the problem for those of us distracted and stressed out by open-plan offices. As far as preferences go, though, if you get even a small part of the external stimulus you want, it's already started wearing on us. Perhaps larger companies could try offering quiet floors with lots of barriers vs "social" open-plan floors.